Date   

Re: Encryption

Joe M.
 

I think he meant the newspaper transmitting
the info over their non-encrypted radios.

Joe M.

On 5/16/2020 12:40 AM, Rick Bates, NK7I wrote:
The encryption key can be sent over the air to reprogram the fleet, but
naturally, it's secure.

Rick


On 5/15/2020 8:45 PM, (Maggie/Tom O’Connor) wrote:
Interesting.. Then hopefully they don’t then broadcast that info out
on an open radio to their cars! Or – maybe hopefully they do – and I
could hear it!
Anyway – thanks much for the reply.
- Maggie
*From:* Ken Kulczyski <mailto:ken.kulczyski@...>
*Sent:* Friday, May 15, 2020 12:02 AM
*To:* main@uniden.groups.io <mailto:main@uniden.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [Uniden] Encryption
More than likely they have one radio at the station that has the
encryption keys.
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Re: Encryption

Rick NK7I
 

The encryption key can be sent over the air to reprogram the fleet, but naturally, it's secure.

Rick


On 5/15/2020 8:45 PM, (Maggie/Tom O’Connor) wrote:
Interesting.. Then hopefully they don’t then broadcast that info out on an open radio to their cars!  Or – maybe hopefully they do – and I could hear it! 
 
Anyway – thanks much for the reply.
 
- Maggie
 
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 12:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Uniden] Encryption
 
More than likely they have one radio at the station that has the encryption keys.
 


Re: Encryption

Maggie O'Connor
 

Thanks everyone.. Quite a complex world - these radios are!

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe M.
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 10:36 PM
To: main@Uniden.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Uniden] Encryption

Sorry, Evan. I didn't see you answered that already.

Joe M.

On 5/14/2020 10:23 PM, Evan Platt wrote:
Most likely they were given a department issued radio with transmit inhibited.

On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 7:12 PM (Maggie/Tom O’Connor)
<Maggie-o@...> wrote:

I have a technical question.. A big city I used to listen to went encrypted
(after a cop got shot in the face answering a domestic call) - and much as
it bums me out - I get it. So the news/media was shut out as well and they
screamed for a week or so - and then got "let in" - but my question is - how
did they get let in? Is it a special frequency? A special receiver they
have to have? Do you think it's just one receiver at the TV Station, rather
than all the news cars have it on scanners in their cars? Just curious how
they are getting it.. Much as I'd like to - I know I can't!

Thanks - Maggie

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe M.
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 9:05 PM
To: main@Uniden.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Uniden] Encryption

I will never criticize someone for putting out a fire
before the FD arrives. That is, after all, the goal.

I don't care if it's the local refuse collector who does it.

Joe M.

On 5/14/2020 8:57 PM, Rick Bates, NK7I wrote:
Ah that glorious day when the cop realizes the dream of being a
firefighter!

<snicker-snort>

Rick


On 5/14/2020 5:46 PM, Joe M. wrote:

On another call, the PD put out a fire in an apartment using
extinguishers.








Re: Encryption

Maggie O'Connor
 

Interesting.. Then hopefully they don’t then broadcast that info out on an open radio to their cars!  Or – maybe hopefully they do – and I could hear it! 
 
Anyway – thanks much for the reply.
 
- Maggie
 

Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 12:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Uniden] Encryption
 
More than likely they have one radio at the station that has the encryption keys.
 
On Thu, May 14, 2020, 22:12 (Maggie/Tom O’Connor) <Maggie-o@...> wrote:
I have a technical question.. A big city I used to listen to went encrypted
(after a cop got shot in the face answering a domestic call) - and much as
it bums me out - I get it.  So the news/media was shut out as well and they
screamed for a week or so - and then got "let in" - but my question is - how
did they get let in? Is it a special frequency?  A special receiver they
have to have?  Do you think it's just one receiver at the TV Station, rather
than all the news cars have it on scanners in their cars?  Just curious how
they are getting it..  Much as I'd like to - I know I can't!

Thanks - Maggie

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe M.
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 9:05 PM
To: main@Uniden.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Uniden] Encryption

I will never criticize someone for putting out a fire
before the FD arrives. That is, after all, the goal.

I don't care if it's the local refuse collector who does it.

Joe M.

On 5/14/2020 8:57 PM, Rick Bates, NK7I wrote:
> Ah that glorious day when the cop realizes the dream of being a
> firefighter!
>
> <snicker-snort>
>
> Rick
>
>
> On 5/14/2020 5:46 PM, Joe M. wrote:
>>
>> On another call, the PD put out a fire in an apartment using
>> extinguishers.








Re: SDS100 Upgrades?

Tim Ferguson
 

The real answer is satellite radios, good anywhere you are.  And too expensive to try to develop a scanner to work with them, in the beginning at least.  (And yes, I’m being sarcastic!  😎)

Tim

On May 15, 2020, at 7:16 PM, Chris Quirk via groups.io <w6cjq@...> wrote:


For those of us that have been around we have seen this move before. It was called Nextel and depending on where you were geographically it worked pretty well. For years PD carried Nextel phones with PTT to be used as a tac channel. A couple of departments did put their main dispatch channel on Nextel as a test.  

So why did it never evolve?

The decision makers trust assets that they own and have control over. Make no mistake the COMs will look more like a cell service than a 2 way radio in the future, however it will be years before 5G or anything else replaces a middle to large sized departments or agency radio system. 

The Nextel channels were also not recorded and some agencies felt this was an unreasonable risk to the department. 

There was always a fear that a nationwide network could be seized or taken down by a un friendly entity  and that agencies did not want to put 100 % trust in any 1 system 

In California we still have large areas with no cell coverage and trunked systems would be very costly to build out and have no real advantage as the amount of air traffic is fairly low for a lot of these rural agencies. (90/5/5)

The Highway patrol uses primarily low band, some UHF and some 700 Mhzs. They would have to build 1000s of sites to cover the areas they serve. 

State parks and regional parks have stayed away from trunk due to cost of the number of cells required to make it work and stick with repeaters in from lowband to 800 Mhzs. 

Chris Quirk
W6CJQ
WQXZ997
925 202 1198


On Friday, May 15, 2020, 10:21:14 AM PDT, Timothy Jackson via groups.io <tmjackso@...> wrote:


Verizon is really pushing their network as supporting first responders, and the push to 5G is also all about public safety/first responder support. I’m curious if the future is actually 5G networks over Verizon/AT&T/Sprint/T-Mobile to replace these trunked radio systems. Any thoughts on that?



On May 15, 2020, at 9:55 AM, Patrick Gauen via groups.io <p_gauen@...> wrote:

As newspaper reporter in scanner-equipped car, one night I heard increasingly frantic state police dispatchers worried for trooper who stopped responding to radio after a traffic stop. Help was a ways off. I knew that on my route home I’d pass his location in a minute or two. I was able to call district headquarters are assure them the officer was on his feet and doing fine.

On May 15, 2020, at 2:00 AM, Mark Lassman via groups.io <kb6kgx@...> wrote:


Interesting story. My daughter graduated from Berkeley two years ago. I stayed at the Durant a couple of times while visiting her on weekends. 

On May 14, 2020, at 3:43 PM, don robinson via groups.io <don_551@...> wrote:

Any information can be abused. Many years ago, when a terrorist took several blondes hostage in the Durant Hotel in Berkeley, Ca, the crook gained intellectual advantage  watching the NEWS on TV in Henri's bar in the hotel. Back then I used a Radio Shack  PRO-38 10 channel scanner and it worked fine. The police on the scene told less than the news reporters on TV.

 These days Berkeley encrypts a couple of their channels. If my town goes to phase II, I'll need a new scanner, but if they encrypt, like you said, I'm out of the game. But,  I'd love to be able to phone the cops and say "I see the guy you're looking for hiding under that dump truck you just passed by".

Stay well.



On Thursday, May 14, 2020, 12:26:35 PM PDT, Joe M. <mch@...> wrote:


You could say P25 "ruined it", or digital "ruined it", or
narrowbanding "ruined it". Any required newer scanners.

Yes, encryption will ruin it for everyone since upgrades are not legal.

P25 Phase II did not ruin it for me. I purchased a P25 Phase II capable
scanner and continue to monitor those areas.

Joe M.

On 5/14/2020 2:50 PM, don robinson via groups.io wrote:
>
> But, for us little guys, it meant replacing our analog
> trunking scanners with digital trunking scanners- not cheap either.
> Phase II ruined  it for some of us. Encryption will ruin it for all of us.






Re: SDS100 Upgrades?

Chris Quirk
 

For those of us that have been around we have seen this move before. It was called Nextel and depending on where you were geographically it worked pretty well. For years PD carried Nextel phones with PTT to be used as a tac channel. A couple of departments did put their main dispatch channel on Nextel as a test.  

So why did it never evolve?

The decision makers trust assets that they own and have control over. Make no mistake the COMs will look more like a cell service than a 2 way radio in the future, however it will be years before 5G or anything else replaces a middle to large sized departments or agency radio system. 

The Nextel channels were also not recorded and some agencies felt this was an unreasonable risk to the department. 

There was always a fear that a nationwide network could be seized or taken down by a un friendly entity  and that agencies did not want to put 100 % trust in any 1 system 

In California we still have large areas with no cell coverage and trunked systems would be very costly to build out and have no real advantage as the amount of air traffic is fairly low for a lot of these rural agencies. (90/5/5)

The Highway patrol uses primarily low band, some UHF and some 700 Mhzs. They would have to build 1000s of sites to cover the areas they serve. 

State parks and regional parks have stayed away from trunk due to cost of the number of cells required to make it work and stick with repeaters in from lowband to 800 Mhzs. 

Chris Quirk
W6CJQ
WQXZ997
925 202 1198


On Friday, May 15, 2020, 10:21:14 AM PDT, Timothy Jackson via groups.io <tmjackso@...> wrote:


Verizon is really pushing their network as supporting first responders, and the push to 5G is also all about public safety/first responder support. I’m curious if the future is actually 5G networks over Verizon/AT&T/Sprint/T-Mobile to replace these trunked radio systems. Any thoughts on that?



On May 15, 2020, at 9:55 AM, Patrick Gauen via groups.io <p_gauen@...> wrote:

As newspaper reporter in scanner-equipped car, one night I heard increasingly frantic state police dispatchers worried for trooper who stopped responding to radio after a traffic stop. Help was a ways off. I knew that on my route home I’d pass his location in a minute or two. I was able to call district headquarters are assure them the officer was on his feet and doing fine.

On May 15, 2020, at 2:00 AM, Mark Lassman via groups.io <kb6kgx@...> wrote:


Interesting story. My daughter graduated from Berkeley two years ago. I stayed at the Durant a couple of times while visiting her on weekends. 

On May 14, 2020, at 3:43 PM, don robinson via groups.io <don_551@...> wrote:

Any information can be abused. Many years ago, when a terrorist took several blondes hostage in the Durant Hotel in Berkeley, Ca, the crook gained intellectual advantage  watching the NEWS on TV in Henri's bar in the hotel. Back then I used a Radio Shack  PRO-38 10 channel scanner and it worked fine. The police on the scene told less than the news reporters on TV.

 These days Berkeley encrypts a couple of their channels. If my town goes to phase II, I'll need a new scanner, but if they encrypt, like you said, I'm out of the game. But,  I'd love to be able to phone the cops and say "I see the guy you're looking for hiding under that dump truck you just passed by".

Stay well.



On Thursday, May 14, 2020, 12:26:35 PM PDT, Joe M. <mch@...> wrote:


You could say P25 "ruined it", or digital "ruined it", or
narrowbanding "ruined it". Any required newer scanners.

Yes, encryption will ruin it for everyone since upgrades are not legal.

P25 Phase II did not ruin it for me. I purchased a P25 Phase II capable
scanner and continue to monitor those areas.

Joe M.

On 5/14/2020 2:50 PM, don robinson via groups.io wrote:
>
> But, for us little guys, it meant replacing our analog
> trunking scanners with digital trunking scanners- not cheap either.
> Phase II ruined  it for some of us. Encryption will ruin it for all of us.






Re: SDS100 Upgrades?

Joe M.
 

The big push is to FirstNet for First Responders.

They are even advertising on TV now.

Joe M.

On 5/15/2020 11:45 AM, Timothy Jackson via groups.io wrote:
Verizon is really pushing their network as supporting first responders,
and the push to 5G is also all about public safety/first responder
support. I’m curious if the future is actually 5G networks over
Verizon/AT&T/Sprint/T-Mobile to replace these trunked radio systems. Any
thoughts on that?



On May 15, 2020, at 9:55 AM, Patrick Gauen via groups.io
<http://groups.io> <p_gauen@...
<mailto:p_gauen@...>> wrote:

As newspaper reporter in scanner-equipped car, one night I heard
increasingly frantic state police dispatchers worried for trooper who
stopped responding to radio after a traffic stop. Help was a ways off.
I knew that on my route home I’d pass his location in a minute or two.
I was able to call district headquarters are assure them the officer
was on his feet and doing fine.

On May 15, 2020, at 2:00 AM, Mark Lassman via groups.io
<http://groups.io> <kb6kgx@...
<mailto:kb6kgx@...>> wrote:

Interesting story. My daughter graduated from Berkeley two years
ago. I stayed at the Durant a couple of times while visiting her on
weekends.

On May 14, 2020, at 3:43 PM, don robinson via groups.io
<http://groups.io/> <don_551@...
<mailto:don_551@...>> wrote:

Any information can be abused. Many years ago, when a terrorist took
several blondes hostage in the Durant Hotel in Berkeley, Ca, the
crook gained intellectual advantage watching the NEWS on TV in
Henri's bar in the hotel. Back then I used a Radio Shack PRO-38 10
channel scanner and it worked fine. The police on the scene told
less than the news reporters on TV.

These days Berkeley encrypts a couple of their channels. If my town
goes to phase II, I'll need a new scanner, but if they encrypt, like
you said, I'm out of the game. But, I'd love to be able to phone
the cops and say "I see the guy you're looking for hiding under that
dump truck you just passed by".

Stay well.



On Thursday, May 14, 2020, 12:26:35 PM PDT, Joe M. <mch@...
<mailto:mch@...>> wrote:


You could say P25 "ruined it", or digital "ruined it", or
narrowbanding "ruined it". Any required newer scanners.

Yes, encryption will ruin it for everyone since upgrades are not legal.

P25 Phase II did not ruin it for me. I purchased a P25 Phase II capable
scanner and continue to monitor those areas.

Joe M.

On 5/14/2020 2:50 PM, don robinson via groups.io <http://groups.io/>
wrote:

But, for us little guys, it meant replacing our analog
trunking scanners with digital trunking scanners- not cheap either.
Phase II ruined it for some of us. Encryption will ruin it for
all of us.



<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
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<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>


Re: SDS100 Upgrades?

Timothy Jackson
 

Verizon is really pushing their network as supporting first responders, and the push to 5G is also all about public safety/first responder support. I’m curious if the future is actually 5G networks over Verizon/AT&T/Sprint/T-Mobile to replace these trunked radio systems. Any thoughts on that?



On May 15, 2020, at 9:55 AM, Patrick Gauen via groups.io <p_gauen@...> wrote:

As newspaper reporter in scanner-equipped car, one night I heard increasingly frantic state police dispatchers worried for trooper who stopped responding to radio after a traffic stop. Help was a ways off. I knew that on my route home I’d pass his location in a minute or two. I was able to call district headquarters are assure them the officer was on his feet and doing fine.

On May 15, 2020, at 2:00 AM, Mark Lassman via groups.io <kb6kgx@...> wrote:

Interesting story. My daughter graduated from Berkeley two years ago. I stayed at the Durant a couple of times while visiting her on weekends. 

On May 14, 2020, at 3:43 PM, don robinson via groups.io <don_551@...> wrote:

Any information can be abused. Many years ago, when a terrorist took several blondes hostage in the Durant Hotel in Berkeley, Ca, the crook gained intellectual advantage  watching the NEWS on TV in Henri's bar in the hotel. Back then I used a Radio Shack  PRO-38 10 channel scanner and it worked fine. The police on the scene told less than the news reporters on TV.

 These days Berkeley encrypts a couple of their channels. If my town goes to phase II, I'll need a new scanner, but if they encrypt, like you said, I'm out of the game. But,  I'd love to be able to phone the cops and say "I see the guy you're looking for hiding under that dump truck you just passed by".

Stay well.



On Thursday, May 14, 2020, 12:26:35 PM PDT, Joe M. <mch@...> wrote:


You could say P25 "ruined it", or digital "ruined it", or
narrowbanding "ruined it". Any required newer scanners.

Yes, encryption will ruin it for everyone since upgrades are not legal.

P25 Phase II did not ruin it for me. I purchased a P25 Phase II capable
scanner and continue to monitor those areas.

Joe M.

On 5/14/2020 2:50 PM, don robinson via groups.io wrote:
>
> But, for us little guys, it meant replacing our analog
> trunking scanners with digital trunking scanners- not cheap either.
> Phase II ruined  it for some of us. Encryption will ruin it for all of us.






Re: Encryption

Rick NK7I
 

Yes, Joe, that is a joke.


Another ribbing often used is for medics...


Why do firefighters hose down the scene of a wreck?


So the medics have something to walk on!


We give each other crap, constantly, but we also have each others backs, just like the family we are.


Rick

(I never went to the dark side of the force, I stayed a firefighter with both fire and LE degrees)


On 5/15/2020 5:41 AM, Don Woodward wrote:
That's an inside joke between Fire and Police - LOL

Don W.
Former Volunteer FF/EMT (12 years)


From: main@Uniden.groups.io <main@Uniden.groups.io> on behalf of Joe M. via groups.io <mch@...>
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 9:05 PM
To: main@Uniden.groups.io <main@Uniden.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Uniden] Encryption
 
I will never criticize someone for putting out a fire
before the FD arrives. That is, after all, the goal.

I don't care if it's the local refuse collector who does it.

Joe M.

On 5/14/2020 8:57 PM, Rick Bates, NK7I wrote:
> Ah that glorious day when the cop realizes the dream of being a
> firefighter!
>
> <snicker-snort>
>
> Rick
>
>
> On 5/14/2020 5:46 PM, Joe M. wrote:
>>
>> On another call, the PD put out a fire in an apartment using
>> extinguishers.





Re: Encryption

Don Woodward
 

That's an inside joke between Fire and Police - LOL

Don W.
Former Volunteer FF/EMT (12 years)


From: main@Uniden.groups.io <main@Uniden.groups.io> on behalf of Joe M. via groups.io <mch@...>
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 9:05 PM
To: main@Uniden.groups.io <main@Uniden.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Uniden] Encryption
 
I will never criticize someone for putting out a fire
before the FD arrives. That is, after all, the goal.

I don't care if it's the local refuse collector who does it.

Joe M.

On 5/14/2020 8:57 PM, Rick Bates, NK7I wrote:
> Ah that glorious day when the cop realizes the dream of being a
> firefighter!
>
> <snicker-snort>
>
> Rick
>
>
> On 5/14/2020 5:46 PM, Joe M. wrote:
>>
>> On another call, the PD put out a fire in an apartment using
>> extinguishers.





Re: SDS100 Upgrades?

Patrick Gauen
 

As newspaper reporter in scanner-equipped car, one night I heard increasingly frantic state police dispatchers worried for trooper who stopped responding to radio after a traffic stop. Help was a ways off. I knew that on my route home I’d pass his location in a minute or two. I was able to call district headquarters are assure them the officer was on his feet and doing fine.

On May 15, 2020, at 2:00 AM, Mark Lassman via groups.io <kb6kgx@...> wrote:

Interesting story. My daughter graduated from Berkeley two years ago. I stayed at the Durant a couple of times while visiting her on weekends. 

On May 14, 2020, at 3:43 PM, don robinson via groups.io <don_551@...> wrote:

Any information can be abused. Many years ago, when a terrorist took several blondes hostage in the Durant Hotel in Berkeley, Ca, the crook gained intellectual advantage  watching the NEWS on TV in Henri's bar in the hotel. Back then I used a Radio Shack  PRO-38 10 channel scanner and it worked fine. The police on the scene told less than the news reporters on TV.

 These days Berkeley encrypts a couple of their channels. If my town goes to phase II, I'll need a new scanner, but if they encrypt, like you said, I'm out of the game. But,  I'd love to be able to phone the cops and say "I see the guy you're looking for hiding under that dump truck you just passed by".

Stay well.



On Thursday, May 14, 2020, 12:26:35 PM PDT, Joe M. <mch@...> wrote:


You could say P25 "ruined it", or digital "ruined it", or
narrowbanding "ruined it". Any required newer scanners.

Yes, encryption will ruin it for everyone since upgrades are not legal.

P25 Phase II did not ruin it for me. I purchased a P25 Phase II capable
scanner and continue to monitor those areas.

Joe M.

On 5/14/2020 2:50 PM, don robinson via groups.io wrote:
>
> But, for us little guys, it meant replacing our analog
> trunking scanners with digital trunking scanners- not cheap either.
> Phase II ruined  it for some of us. Encryption will ruin it for all of us.





Re: SDS100 Upgrades?

Mark Lassman
 

Interesting story. My daughter graduated from Berkeley two years ago. I stayed at the Durant a couple of times while visiting her on weekends. 

On May 14, 2020, at 3:43 PM, don robinson via groups.io <don_551@...> wrote:

Any information can be abused. Many years ago, when a terrorist took several blondes hostage in the Durant Hotel in Berkeley, Ca, the crook gained intellectual advantage  watching the NEWS on TV in Henri's bar in the hotel. Back then I used a Radio Shack  PRO-38 10 channel scanner and it worked fine. The police on the scene told less than the news reporters on TV.

 These days Berkeley encrypts a couple of their channels. If my town goes to phase II, I'll need a new scanner, but if they encrypt, like you said, I'm out of the game. But,  I'd love to be able to phone the cops and say "I see the guy you're looking for hiding under that dump truck you just passed by".

Stay well.



On Thursday, May 14, 2020, 12:26:35 PM PDT, Joe M. <mch@...> wrote:


You could say P25 "ruined it", or digital "ruined it", or
narrowbanding "ruined it". Any required newer scanners.

Yes, encryption will ruin it for everyone since upgrades are not legal.

P25 Phase II did not ruin it for me. I purchased a P25 Phase II capable
scanner and continue to monitor those areas.

Joe M.

On 5/14/2020 2:50 PM, don robinson via groups.io wrote:
>
> But, for us little guys, it meant replacing our analog
> trunking scanners with digital trunking scanners- not cheap either.
> Phase II ruined  it for some of us. Encryption will ruin it for all of us.





Re: Encryption

Ken Kulczyski
 

More than likely they have one radio at the station that has the encryption keys. 


On Thu, May 14, 2020, 22:12 (Maggie/Tom O’Connor) <Maggie-o@...> wrote:
I have a technical question.. A big city I used to listen to went encrypted
(after a cop got shot in the face answering a domestic call) - and much as
it bums me out - I get it.  So the news/media was shut out as well and they
screamed for a week or so - and then got "let in" - but my question is - how
did they get let in? Is it a special frequency?  A special receiver they
have to have?  Do you think it's just one receiver at the TV Station, rather
than all the news cars have it on scanners in their cars?  Just curious how
they are getting it..  Much as I'd like to - I know I can't!

Thanks - Maggie

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe M.
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 9:05 PM
To: main@Uniden.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Uniden] Encryption

I will never criticize someone for putting out a fire
before the FD arrives. That is, after all, the goal.

I don't care if it's the local refuse collector who does it.

Joe M.

On 5/14/2020 8:57 PM, Rick Bates, NK7I wrote:
> Ah that glorious day when the cop realizes the dream of being a
> firefighter!
>
> <snicker-snort>
>
> Rick
>
>
> On 5/14/2020 5:46 PM, Joe M. wrote:
>>
>> On another call, the PD put out a fire in an apartment using
>> extinguishers.








Re: HIPAA (or HIPPA)

jim myers
 

With the use of systems like ePCR, there is no such thing as written documentation to "be locked in a vault"

Patient information, including the condition of the patient, is ALWAYS transmitted to the responding crew. In 99% of city agencies, the call taker is NEVER the dispatcher. What kind of fantasy land must one live in to think that a responding paramedic crew is not allowed to know the patient's condition? In said fantasy land ALL medical dispatches would go like this "Medic 1, xxx Main St." That's it, nothing else. Utter insanity to think that's how it works!

No dispatch information is "handed to the medical supervisor for secure filing" - 99% of city agencies have entirely electronic dispatch systems, so there is no such thing as "written documentation." Further, there is no dispatch agency that I've ever seen in 40 years in emergency services that has a "medical supervisor" hanging out in dispatch.


Re: Encryption

Lloyd Mitchell
 

Stated in this thread..
. The portables are about $ 1000.00 each and they have two of them

I would like to know what radio has AES encryption today that operates in a trunked environment please for $1000.  Not throwing rocks, really would like to know.

Lloyd


Re: Encryption

Evan Platt
 

:) I recall seeing your name too. Yep, been in this 'hobby' a while :)

On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 7:47 PM Jerry Strahan <jerrystrahan@...> wrote:

I just want to say .Evan, I have seen your name on scanner groups for 20 years .
Jerry


Re: Encryption

Rick Schafer
 

With OTAR you can’t turn it off. That’s for the greater good. Thanks to all that ruined it. Those days are Gone 


On May 14, 2020, at 7:39 PM, Glenn &quot;Butch&quot; Kanvick <hotlrv1@...> wrote:


Usually, the News people have to buy the same radio that the agency is using and they allow them to receive the encrypted channel, but they have more encrypted channels the police can use. So they can listen to Sanitation, Street, Water, Dog Catcher, Bus Drivers and low and behold, the Fire Dept. The portables are about $ 1000.00 each and they have two of them.  The rest of the listeners only get to listen if someone turns off the encryption.  Baa Baa Baa, Baa Baa Baa, That's all Folks !!!!!!!
 

On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 8:12 PM (Maggie/Tom O’Connor) <Maggie-o@...> wrote:
I have a technical question.. A big city I used to listen to went encrypted
(after a cop got shot in the face answering a domestic call) - and much as
it bums me out - I get it.  So the news/media was shut out as well and they
screamed for a week or so - and then got "let in" - but my question is - how
did they get let in? Is it a special frequency?  A special receiver they
have to have?  Do you think it's just one receiver at the TV Station, rather
than all the news cars have it on scanners in their cars?  Just curious how
they are getting it..  Much as I'd like to - I know I can't!

Thanks - Maggie

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe M.
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 9:05 PM
To: main@Uniden.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Uniden] Encryption

I will never criticize someone for putting out a fire
before the FD arrives. That is, after all, the goal.

I don't care if it's the local refuse collector who does it.

Joe M.

On 5/14/2020 8:57 PM, Rick Bates, NK7I wrote:
> Ah that glorious day when the cop realizes the dream of being a
> firefighter!
>
> <snicker-snort>
>
> Rick
>
>
> On 5/14/2020 5:46 PM, Joe M. wrote:
>>
>> On another call, the PD put out a fire in an apartment using
>> extinguishers.









--
Glenn (Butch) Kanvick
KE7FEL/R
1-406-655-1232
 


Re: HIPAA (or HIPPA)

Rick NK7I
 

(I know that the thread is closed; I changed the header because this is important to know.)

The law allows those in direct contact with the patient care to discuss name, condition and treatments, no further.

The only way the dispatcher can legally know is if the one originating the call informs the dispatcher when describing the conditions or needs.  That information is NOT allowed to be sent over the air to the responding crew; one way to give them a heads up is to advise the crew to "Use FULL CDC precautions upon arrival" (then get them to acknowledge that info) and that is a thin thin line (similar is going on now with CV19 risks).  The dispatcher notes the warning in the log and usually nothing further is documented (department regs vary, so if written, that documentation is handed to the medical supervisor for secure filing) and they are forbidden to discuss it (even with the crew that was sent!).

The responders MUST NOT use any patient name over the air in relation to the event, if more than one patient, the number system is used (patient 1, patient 2 etc).  Once at the arriving facility, a verbal AND written exchange (handoff) will happen to the attending staff ONLY.  Nothing goes undocumented these days, the paperwork (including the written agency report) must be locked in a vault accessible to a very limited number of people.  The crew can ONLY discuss the patient care with those in the facility responsible for added care; they are not allowed to tell anyone else, including the next shift, spouse or even other co-workers.  This also includes the family of the patient.  This includes electronic (tablet, computer) documentation (new since the law was written) it must be SECURE.

The law is specific and clear in this regard.  If you read it carefully, bladder control is important, it's scary.

The standard issued line about patient care for reporters is "We went, we found XXX  of specific injuries, we treated/transported."  That's it.  They can discuss the horrendous wreck, the dramatic rescue or similar, ZERO about the patient name, even by inference.  (This is routinely stated as "We brought in the victim of a drive-by shooting" but NO NAMES are allowed.)  This is still used, even if the patient is DOA.

Violation of the law brings numerous sharp gnashing teeth into motion; one does not want to cross this line.  God may forgive you, but the judges won't and the lawyers will give you nightmares for years.

So you're mistaken, the law is SPECIFIC in forbidding communications beyond the above mentioned conditions.  Condition, state of transport or release but NO NAMES.

Rick


On 5/14/2020 6:18 PM, Rich wrote:
HIPAA does not apply to communications required to treat patients or to information shared for operations purposes. 45 C.F.R. § 164.501 Since information shared by a dispatch agency is shared to treat patients and to operate effectively as a dispatchservice, HIPAA most often does not apply to the communication.

--------------


'73
Rich, n9dko


Re: Encryption

Rick Schafer
 

Here is how social media has forced public safety to encrypt 
A call goes out that little Johnny didn’t show up at school. His dad hunts and has guns. The Assuming social media person says Johnny must be at home and has his dads gun and is going down to the schoolyard and is going to shoot everyone.  Yea it’s dumbasses like this that warrant encryption. 


On May 14, 2020, at 7:39 PM, Glenn &quot;Butch&quot; Kanvick <hotlrv1@...> wrote:


Usually, the News people have to buy the same radio that the agency is using and they allow them to receive the encrypted channel, but they have more encrypted channels the police can use. So they can listen to Sanitation, Street, Water, Dog Catcher, Bus Drivers and low and behold, the Fire Dept. The portables are about $ 1000.00 each and they have two of them.  The rest of the listeners only get to listen if someone turns off the encryption.  Baa Baa Baa, Baa Baa Baa, That's all Folks !!!!!!!
 

On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 8:12 PM (Maggie/Tom O’Connor) <Maggie-o@...> wrote:
I have a technical question.. A big city I used to listen to went encrypted
(after a cop got shot in the face answering a domestic call) - and much as
it bums me out - I get it.  So the news/media was shut out as well and they
screamed for a week or so - and then got "let in" - but my question is - how
did they get let in? Is it a special frequency?  A special receiver they
have to have?  Do you think it's just one receiver at the TV Station, rather
than all the news cars have it on scanners in their cars?  Just curious how
they are getting it..  Much as I'd like to - I know I can't!

Thanks - Maggie

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe M.
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 9:05 PM
To: main@Uniden.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Uniden] Encryption

I will never criticize someone for putting out a fire
before the FD arrives. That is, after all, the goal.

I don't care if it's the local refuse collector who does it.

Joe M.

On 5/14/2020 8:57 PM, Rick Bates, NK7I wrote:
> Ah that glorious day when the cop realizes the dream of being a
> firefighter!
>
> <snicker-snort>
>
> Rick
>
>
> On 5/14/2020 5:46 PM, Joe M. wrote:
>>
>> On another call, the PD put out a fire in an apartment using
>> extinguishers.









--
Glenn (Butch) Kanvick
KE7FEL/R
1-406-655-1232
 


Re: Encryption

jerrystrahan@...
 

I just want to say .Evan, I have seen your name on scanner groups for 20 years .
Jerry

--
Sent from my Android phone with mail.com Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

On 5/14/20, 9:24 PM Evan Platt <evan@...> wrote:
Most likely they were given a department issued radio with transmit inhibited.

On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 7:12 PM (Maggie/Tom O’Connor)
<Maggie-o@...> wrote:
>
> I have a technical question.. A big city I used to listen to went encrypted
> (after a cop got shot in the face answering a domestic call) - and much as
> it bums me out - I get it. So the news/media was shut out as well and they
> screamed for a week or so - and then got "let in" - but my question is - how
> did they get let in? Is it a special frequency? A special receiver they
> have to have? Do you think it's just one receiver at the TV Station, rather
> than all the news cars have it on scanners in their cars? Just curious how
> they are getting it.. Much as I'd like to - I know I can't!
>
> Thanks - Maggie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe M.
> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 9:05 PM
> To: main@Uniden.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [Uniden] Encryption
>
> I will never criticize someone for putting out a fire
> before the FD arrives. That is, after all, the goal.
>
> I don't care if it's the local refuse collector who does it.
>
> Joe M.
>
> On 5/14/2020 8:57 PM, Rick Bates, NK7I wrote:
> > Ah that glorious day when the cop realizes the dream of being a
> > firefighter!
> >
> > <snicker-snort>
> >
> > Rick
> >
> >
> > On 5/14/2020 5:46 PM, Joe M. wrote:
> >>
> >> On another call, the PD put out a fire in an apartment using
> >> extinguishers.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



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