Date   

Re: crypto comm

Gigu chan
 

  There  was an episode  on “Adam 12”  where the bad guys  used to tune into  Police Comms…  and naturally  the Dukes of hazard…  of course I’m making light of the situation…  when the switch is thrown  here in Suffolk county…  I’ll sell my scanners and find another hobby.Maybe  concentrate  on HF

 

From: main@Uniden.groups.io <main@Uniden.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mark French
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2019 21:43
To: main@uniden.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Uniden] crypto comm

 

In Houston back in the 70s and 80s we had several cases of crooks using scanners but they were caught because they didn't' know the lingo and the simplex frequencies being used. This was in the analoge days.before the digital systems came on line. The only complaint I have is the HFD Tac channels being encrypted. I can see the arson and investigations channels being encrypted but the fire scene channels I just don't see the reason for it.


Re: crypto comm

Gigu chan
 

Agreed.

 

From: main@Uniden.groups.io <main@Uniden.groups.io> On Behalf Of Marty Toomajian
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2019 14:00
To: main@uniden.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Uniden] crypto comm

 

Rather than think I know better than what these agencies need,  I thank my lucky stars that I could listen to some great communications in the 80's just by programming a Bearcat or a Radio Shack Pro-200X.

 

I believe I lived through a unique time when crystals weren't needed and Tom Kneitel published frequencies that are today encrypted 99+% of the time. 

 

It was fun.  I was fortunate.  I'm thankful and I've moved on to other hobbies. 

 

On Sun, Nov 10, 2019, 1:07 PM ihc53 <ihc53@...> wrote:

99 percent of police traffic should be in the clear, unencrypted.  And you are quite right, when everything is encrypted and in the shadows it will smack of "secret police."

 

With very few exceptions,  everything should be open to the taxpayers to hear.

 

Sent from my Galaxy Tab A

 

-------- Original message --------

From: "William Barrett, KW1B" <wbarrett@...>

Date: 11/9/19 5:23 PM (GMT-05:00)

Subject: [Uniden] crypto comm

 

I believe that citizens have the right and the responsibility to supervise

at a certain level.  Fully encrypted police comms are not accessaable,

while most are quite routine and do NOT require a high degree of

secrecy. 

 

In those few special other cases, there are methods of COMSEC

well-known to police and military communications people.  Simply

encryping everything is lazy and can lead to Secret Police Mindset.

Not something most people would favor.

 

Routine ops need to be in the clear.

 

   73

   bb

  NC

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Uniden.groups.io [mailto:main@Uniden.groups.io]On Behalf Of Shawn Benoit
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2019 15:45
To: main@uniden.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Uniden] P25 for Cheap

I'm pro encryption for police and EMS communications. Nothing will change that even though it's a hobby and I like to listen. 

 

On Sat, Nov 9, 2019 at 13:09 Joe M. <mch@...> wrote:

Is that because crime only happens at the
police station and doesn't affect communities?

Do you not care that you will be late to work because
there is an accident blocking your normal route?

Do you not care that you will be ADDING
to the problem (traffic) in the above case?

Are you fine with going to the mall when
there is an active shooter in the area?

If there is a felon loose in your neighborhood,
are you OK letting your kids go out to play?

A FOIA request will not solve any of these cases.
Encryption will not alert you to these cases.
Only clear communications will let you know WHEN you need to know it.

Joe M.


Re: crypto comm

Jeff Kenyon
 

Agreed, some places like in North Dakota, and some places down south go as far as encrypting public works and parks and rec.  I noticed that in a lot of areas around Chicago they’ve encrypted, but not in Chicago itself.  I’ve noticed that a lot of places down south more then anywhere else they do a lot of encryption.  In a couple of weeks I’ll be going to see my mom and she lives in Louden County Tennessee.  The last few years I’ve been down there they have had some encryption, bbut upon checking rr it looks like both police and fire are encrypted now full time?  On the county law talkgroups encryption would come and go but not on fire/EMS.  I’ll let everyone know, but I don’t know what to expect there.  I know that all law enforcement in Knox County is encrypted, and that is the nearest major city she is near.  What are people doing in places that have a lot of encryption who want most of the coms to be in the clear?  There never has been any posts anywhere to indicate any activity that has taken place as far as protesting the encryption.


On Nov 10, 2019, at 9:26 PM, Rich <rk911forums@...> wrote:

i spent nearly 30-yrs working in and managing a large consolidated 9-1-1 center in suburban chicago.  can't recall any incidents in which the bad guys used a scanner to evade police.  the criminals aren't that smart.  

tactical, warrant service, fugitive apprehension and the like should absolutely be encrypted 24/7.  the rest, not so much. 

Rich via iPad

On Nov 10, 2019, at 17:58, Walter C. Powis, Sr <wcpowissr@...> wrote:

Just a personal thought. After spending many years in communications, security and such, I am convinced that there are some things that the general public has absolutely no need to know! Just my 2 cents!!
W3WP
 
From: don robinson via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2019 6:10 PM
To: main@Uniden.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Uniden] crypto comm
 
Our officers go to their cell phones when things get so risky.
 
On Sunday, November 10, 2019, 09:58:41 AM PST, Shawn Benoit <shawnbenoit@...> wrote:
 
 
 
That sounds like a huge training issue. Not a problem with encryption.
 
Most people who demand things to be in the clear seem to have some issues with authority. They are also the same people who say things like "I pay your salary" or "the taxpayers MUST be able to hear the police." They also spout off bout conspiracy theories about their local police.
 
The officers need encryption for secure communications. There are all sorts of reasons why for example the following things are common over the air:
 
-victim info (sexual/Juvenile/domestic violence)
-NCIC (CJIS protected)
-Key holder info
-Suspect names (NOT proven convicted people)
-Officer locations/calls
-Officer to officer discussions (trying to figure out options/enforcement)
-Medical info/conditions
 
This goes on. These guys are being attacked on a regular basis. The least we can do is give them secure comms which is dirt cheap and included in just about every radio off the shelf nowadays.
 
Also, question why you hold grudges with your local police and think they owe you something.
 
On Sat, Nov 9, 2019 at 21:51 jim myers <kd7eir@...> wrote:
We have about 9 LE agencies in my county. ONE of them insists on being encrypted 24/7. A few years ago they had an officer chasing a suspect across several municipalities. None of the other agencies could communicate with them in real time, and by the time their dispatch called the agency that he was currently chasing his suspect through with his location, several minutes had passed, and he was nowhere neat that location. Sadly, he was found shot in the head at the end of a road part way up a mountain.

At the time this happened, they were also on a standalone communications system that isolated them from ALL other LE agencies in the county. They finally decided to join the shared radio system, but STILL insist upon 24/7 encryption for their talkgroups. They are still the ONLY encrypted agency. They can switch to a shared, unencrypted, mutual channel if they need assistance. The last time they needed help, no one in their department know what channel to switch to...


Re: crypto comm

Mark French
 

In Houston back in the 70s and 80s we had several cases of crooks using scanners but they were caught because they didn't' know the lingo and the simplex frequencies being used. This was in the analoge days.before the digital systems came on line. The only complaint I have is the HFD Tac channels being encrypted. I can see the arson and investigations channels being encrypted but the fire scene channels I just don't see the reason for it.


Re: crypto comm

don robinson
 

On Sunday, November 10, 2019, 05:57:07 PM PST, Rich <rk911forums@...> wrote:



one or possibly two come to mind. certainly not hundreds. and a police officer convicted of a crime will no longer be a police officer.  

‘73
rich

Not "nuff said"; read the recent news about police offices- hundreds of them- convicted of terrible crimes, including murder, were still allowed to remain on the force and that was kept from the public. If you don't want to know right from wrong, that supports wrong and it just gets worse.


Re: crypto comm

Rich
 

i spent nearly 30-yrs working in and managing a large consolidated 9-1-1 center in suburban chicago.  can't recall any incidents in which the bad guys used a scanner to evade police.  the criminals aren't that smart.  

tactical, warrant service, fugitive apprehension and the like should absolutely be encrypted 24/7.  the rest, not so much. 

Rich via iPad

On Nov 10, 2019, at 17:58, Walter C. Powis, Sr <wcpowissr@...> wrote:

Just a personal thought. After spending many years in communications, security and such, I am convinced that there are some things that the general public has absolutely no need to know! Just my 2 cents!!
W3WP
 
From: don robinson via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2019 6:10 PM
To: main@Uniden.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Uniden] crypto comm
 
Our officers go to their cell phones when things get so risky.
 
On Sunday, November 10, 2019, 09:58:41 AM PST, Shawn Benoit <shawnbenoit@...> wrote:
 
 
 
That sounds like a huge training issue. Not a problem with encryption.
 
Most people who demand things to be in the clear seem to have some issues with authority. They are also the same people who say things like "I pay your salary" or "the taxpayers MUST be able to hear the police." They also spout off bout conspiracy theories about their local police.
 
The officers need encryption for secure communications. There are all sorts of reasons why for example the following things are common over the air:
 
-victim info (sexual/Juvenile/domestic violence)
-NCIC (CJIS protected)
-Key holder info
-Suspect names (NOT proven convicted people)
-Officer locations/calls
-Officer to officer discussions (trying to figure out options/enforcement)
-Medical info/conditions
 
This goes on. These guys are being attacked on a regular basis. The least we can do is give them secure comms which is dirt cheap and included in just about every radio off the shelf nowadays.
 
Also, question why you hold grudges with your local police and think they owe you something.
 
On Sat, Nov 9, 2019 at 21:51 jim myers <kd7eir@...> wrote:
We have about 9 LE agencies in my county. ONE of them insists on being encrypted 24/7. A few years ago they had an officer chasing a suspect across several municipalities. None of the other agencies could communicate with them in real time, and by the time their dispatch called the agency that he was currently chasing his suspect through with his location, several minutes had passed, and he was nowhere neat that location. Sadly, he was found shot in the head at the end of a road part way up a mountain.

At the time this happened, they were also on a standalone communications system that isolated them from ALL other LE agencies in the county. They finally decided to join the shared radio system, but STILL insist upon 24/7 encryption for their talkgroups. They are still the ONLY encrypted agency. They can switch to a shared, unencrypted, mutual channel if they need assistance. The last time they needed help, no one in their department know what channel to switch to...


Re: crypto comm

Rich
 

got a source you can cite, joe?

Rich via iPad

On Nov 10, 2019, at 19:51, Joe M. <mch@nb.net> wrote:

Except that many of them WERE caught by the public complaining
about their actions, and many of those were heard via scanners.

Just sayin'.

Agreed there only a few bad apples by percentage comparison, but
hiding actions is going to do nothing but increase those numbers.

Only criminals should fear the sunlight.

Joe M.

On 11/10/2019 6:44 PM, Don Curtis wrote:

Of course there are bad cops, and I guarantee you won't catch them by
listening to dispatch.

There's bad people in every group. I would bet as a percentage, the
police are way towards the bottom compared to other groups.

There are close to 1 million sworn police officers in the US. 1% of 1
million is 10,000 and I seriously doubt there are 10,000 law breaking
cops out there.

Just saying...

On November 10, 2019 4:17:44 PM "don robinson via Groups.Io"
<don_551=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Not "nuff said"; read the recent news about police offices- hundreds
of them- convicted of terrible crimes, including murder, were still
allowed to remain on the force and that was kept from the public. If
you don't want to know right from wrong, that supports wrong and it
just gets worse.

On Sunday, November 10, 2019, 10:16:51 AM PST, Don Curtis
<don.curtis@att.net> wrote:



You all seem to forget... That unencrypted police radio means it is
unencrypted for YOU and the criminals in town too.

26 years as a police officer in Denver, CO and while not frequent,
there were many times where (especially burglars, youth gangs and
outlaw motorcycle groups) used scanners to avoid capture.

Being able to listen to public safety radio is NOT a "right" but just
a desire. Public safety is a government function and the "government"
is elected by you and represents the citizens. The voting public has
100% control of public agencies.

Nuff said.

On November 10, 2019 10:59:00 AM "ihc53" <ihc53@twc.com> wrote:

99 percent of police traffic should be in the clear, unencrypted.
And you are quite right, when everything is encrypted and in the
shadows it will smack of "secret police."

With very few exceptions, everything should be open to the taxpayers
to hear.

Sent from my Galaxy Tab A

-------- Original message --------
From: "William Barrett, KW1B" <wbarrett@centurylink.net>
Date: 11/9/19 5:23 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: main@Uniden.groups.io
Subject: [Uniden] crypto comm

I believe that citizens have the right and the responsibility to
supervise
at a certain level. Fully encrypted police comms are not accessaable,
while most are quite routine and do NOT require a high degree of
secrecy.
In those few special other cases, there are methods of COMSEC
well-known to police and military communications people. Simply
encryping everything is lazy and can lead to *Secret Police Mindset.*
Not something most people would favor.
Routine ops need to be in the clear.
73
bb
NC

-----Original Message-----
*From:* main@Uniden.groups.io [mailto:main@Uniden.groups.io]*On
Behalf Of *Shawn Benoit
*Sent:* Saturday, November 09, 2019 15:45
*To:* main@uniden.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [Uniden] P25 for Cheap

I'm pro encryption for police and EMS communications. Nothing
will change that even though it's a hobby and I like to listen.

On Sat, Nov 9, 2019 at 13:09 Joe M. <mch@nb.net
<mailto:mch@nb.net>> wrote:

Is that because crime only happens at the
police station and doesn't affect communities?

Do you not care that you will be late to work because
there is an accident blocking your normal route?

Do you not care that you will be ADDING
to the problem (traffic) in the above case?

Are you fine with going to the mall when
there is an active shooter in the area?

If there is a felon loose in your neighborhood,
are you OK letting your kids go out to play?

A FOIA request will not solve any of these cases.
Encryption will not alert you to these cases.
Only clear communications will let you know WHEN you need to
know it.

Joe M.

<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
Virus-free. www.avg.com
<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>


<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>


Re: P25 for Cheap

Edward Maikranz
 

I love our EDACS system and will be sad to see it go, it has been a workhorse, extremely reliable. We have XL-200 portables and will go P25 eventually. 
Ed
KG5UN
Abilene, TX


On Nov 10, 2019, at 7:42 PM, Jim Walls <jim@...> wrote:


On 11/10/2019 15:29, don robinson via Groups.Io wrote:
I wish you would have talked to my city before they dumped their Johnson Edacs radios for P25 Motorola equipment, spending $20 million to start, then another $20 million to make the new radios finally work.


EDACS was a proprietary format of GE (later acquired by Ericsson then Harris) (not Johnson).  It became unsupported shortly after Harris bought the company.  It was old, unsupported, and not compatible with anybody else.  It needed to go.  By going with P-25, your city had the ability to go with any one of several manufacturers.  Because the old field radios were EDACS radios, they all had to be replaced in order to use the new open standard.  A forklift replacement of almost any system (computers, radio, trash truck, whatever) costs money - that's reality.

-- 
73
-------------------------------------
Jim Walls - K6CCC
jim@...
Ofc:  818-548-4804
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/k6ccc/
AMSAT Member 32537 - WSWSS Member 395


Re: crypto comm

Donald Lambert <banjodhl@...>
 

Don;

Got that right....

don/k0kuz

ZUT

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Thought for the week:
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Without CW it's just CB
-Jess-
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Any and all communications herein are the sole property of the email sender and originator. Any electronic intercept of this communication constitutes a violation of 50 U.S.C. § 1861(b)(2) of The Patriot Act. The use of this information in informal or formal proceedings, charges, investigations or indictments is strictly prohibited and rendered null and void if obtained without a warrant."
---------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------


On Sunday, November 10, 2019, 2:56:25 PM PST, Don Curtis <don.curtis@...> wrote:


You don't like it, get your city/county/state/federal lawmakers to enact a law prohibiting encryption. 

If enough voters think like you, should be a piece of cake.

Until then, you will have live with it.

Just like I have to live with not being allowed to use amateur radio equipment without a license even though the airwaves belong to the public. 



Re: crypto comm

Rich
 


one or possibly two come to mind. certainly not hundreds. and a police officer convicted of a crime will no longer be a police officer.  

‘73
rich


Not "nuff said"; read the recent news about police offices- hundreds of them- convicted of terrible crimes, including murder, were still allowed to remain on the force and that was kept from the public. If you don't want to know right from wrong, that supports wrong and it just gets worse.


Re: crypto comm

Walter C. Powis, Sr
 

Just a personal thought. After spending many years in communications, security and such, I am convinced that there are some things that the general public has absolutely no need to know! Just my 2 cents!!
W3WP
 

From: don robinson via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2019 6:10 PM
To: main@Uniden.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Uniden] crypto comm
 
Our officers go to their cell phones when things get so risky.
 
On Sunday, November 10, 2019, 09:58:41 AM PST, Shawn Benoit <shawnbenoit@...> wrote:
 
 
 
That sounds like a huge training issue. Not a problem with encryption.
 
Most people who demand things to be in the clear seem to have some issues with authority. They are also the same people who say things like "I pay your salary" or "the taxpayers MUST be able to hear the police." They also spout off bout conspiracy theories about their local police.
 
The officers need encryption for secure communications. There are all sorts of reasons why for example the following things are common over the air:
 
-victim info (sexual/Juvenile/domestic violence)
-NCIC (CJIS protected)
-Key holder info
-Suspect names (NOT proven convicted people)
-Officer locations/calls
-Officer to officer discussions (trying to figure out options/enforcement)
-Medical info/conditions
 
This goes on. These guys are being attacked on a regular basis. The least we can do is give them secure comms which is dirt cheap and included in just about every radio off the shelf nowadays.
 
Also, question why you hold grudges with your local police and think they owe you something.
 
On Sat, Nov 9, 2019 at 21:51 jim myers <kd7eir@...> wrote:
We have about 9 LE agencies in my county. ONE of them insists on being encrypted 24/7. A few years ago they had an officer chasing a suspect across several municipalities. None of the other agencies could communicate with them in real time, and by the time their dispatch called the agency that he was currently chasing his suspect through with his location, several minutes had passed, and he was nowhere neat that location. Sadly, he was found shot in the head at the end of a road part way up a mountain.

At the time this happened, they were also on a standalone communications system that isolated them from ALL other LE agencies in the county. They finally decided to join the shared radio system, but STILL insist upon 24/7 encryption for their talkgroups. They are still the ONLY encrypted agency. They can switch to a shared, unencrypted, mutual channel if they need assistance. The last time they needed help, no one in their department know what channel to switch to...


Re: crypto comm

Joe M.
 

Except that many of them WERE caught by the public complaining
about their actions, and many of those were heard via scanners.

Just sayin'.

Agreed there only a few bad apples by percentage comparison, but
hiding actions is going to do nothing but increase those numbers.

Only criminals should fear the sunlight.

Joe M.

On 11/10/2019 6:44 PM, Don Curtis wrote:

Of course there are bad cops, and I guarantee you won't catch them by
listening to dispatch.

There's bad people in every group. I would bet as a percentage, the
police are way towards the bottom compared to other groups.

There are close to 1 million sworn police officers in the US. 1% of 1
million is 10,000 and I seriously doubt there are 10,000 law breaking
cops out there.

Just saying...

On November 10, 2019 4:17:44 PM "don robinson via Groups.Io"
<don_551=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Not "nuff said"; read the recent news about police offices- hundreds
of them- convicted of terrible crimes, including murder, were still
allowed to remain on the force and that was kept from the public. If
you don't want to know right from wrong, that supports wrong and it
just gets worse.

On Sunday, November 10, 2019, 10:16:51 AM PST, Don Curtis
<don.curtis@att.net> wrote:



You all seem to forget... That unencrypted police radio means it is
unencrypted for YOU and the criminals in town too.

26 years as a police officer in Denver, CO and while not frequent,
there were many times where (especially burglars, youth gangs and
outlaw motorcycle groups) used scanners to avoid capture.

Being able to listen to public safety radio is NOT a "right" but just
a desire. Public safety is a government function and the "government"
is elected by you and represents the citizens. The voting public has
100% control of public agencies.

Nuff said.

On November 10, 2019 10:59:00 AM "ihc53" <ihc53@twc.com> wrote:

99 percent of police traffic should be in the clear, unencrypted.
And you are quite right, when everything is encrypted and in the
shadows it will smack of "secret police."

With very few exceptions, everything should be open to the taxpayers
to hear.

Sent from my Galaxy Tab A

-------- Original message --------
From: "William Barrett, KW1B" <wbarrett@centurylink.net>
Date: 11/9/19 5:23 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: main@Uniden.groups.io
Subject: [Uniden] crypto comm

I believe that citizens have the right and the responsibility to
supervise
at a certain level. Fully encrypted police comms are not accessaable,
while most are quite routine and do NOT require a high degree of
secrecy.
In those few special other cases, there are methods of COMSEC
well-known to police and military communications people. Simply
encryping everything is lazy and can lead to *Secret Police Mindset.*
Not something most people would favor.
Routine ops need to be in the clear.
73
bb
NC

-----Original Message-----
*From:* main@Uniden.groups.io [mailto:main@Uniden.groups.io]*On
Behalf Of *Shawn Benoit
*Sent:* Saturday, November 09, 2019 15:45
*To:* main@uniden.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [Uniden] P25 for Cheap

I'm pro encryption for police and EMS communications. Nothing
will change that even though it's a hobby and I like to listen.

On Sat, Nov 9, 2019 at 13:09 Joe M. <mch@nb.net
<mailto:mch@nb.net>> wrote:

Is that because crime only happens at the
police station and doesn't affect communities?

Do you not care that you will be late to work because
there is an accident blocking your normal route?

Do you not care that you will be ADDING
to the problem (traffic) in the above case?

Are you fine with going to the mall when
there is an active shooter in the area?

If there is a felon loose in your neighborhood,
are you OK letting your kids go out to play?

A FOIA request will not solve any of these cases.
Encryption will not alert you to these cases.
Only clear communications will let you know WHEN you need to
know it.

Joe M.

<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
Virus-free. www.avg.com
<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>


<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>


Re: P25 for Cheap

Jim Walls
 

On 11/10/2019 15:29, don robinson via Groups.Io wrote:
I wish you would have talked to my city before they dumped their Johnson Edacs radios for P25 Motorola equipment, spending $20 million to start, then another $20 million to make the new radios finally work.


EDACS was a proprietary format of GE (later acquired by Ericsson then Harris) (not Johnson).  It became unsupported shortly after Harris bought the company.  It was old, unsupported, and not compatible with anybody else.  It needed to go.  By going with P-25, your city had the ability to go with any one of several manufacturers.  Because the old field radios were EDACS radios, they all had to be replaced in order to use the new open standard.  A forklift replacement of almost any system (computers, radio, trash truck, whatever) costs money - that's reality.

-- 
73
-------------------------------------
Jim Walls - K6CCC
jim@...
Ofc:  818-548-4804
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/k6ccc/
AMSAT Member 32537 - WSWSS Member 395


Re: crypto comm

Don Curtis <Don.Curtis@...>
 

And that's the whole point of getting enough people to agree with you and vote for people/laws that you all agree with.

If it's an important issue for you, write letters to the editor of a local paper trying to educate them. Talk to your representative and see if they are willing to support your position.

That's the system we live in, and how things get done... Or not.

People's choice.

On November 10, 2019 4:36:14 PM "Joe M." <mch@nb.net> wrote:

I would agree if you could get a license for the encryption key.

Otherwise, apples and racecars.

Most voters are not technical enough to know the details and will
blindly follow the "we need this for your safety" spin by elected
leaders. Many also could care less, and if it doesn't affect them they
will not vote for changes.

Joe M.

On 11/10/2019 5:56 PM, Don Curtis wrote:
You don't like it, get your city/county/state/federal lawmakers to enact
a law prohibiting encryption.

If enough voters think like you, should be a piece of cake.

Until then, you will have live with it.

Just like I have to live with not being allowed to use amateur radio
equipment without a license even though the airwaves belong to the public.



<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
Virus-free. www.avg.com
<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>


<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>


Re: crypto comm

GM7BNF
 

Too flippin right

Look on youtube

Poor dirt farmer and the eric brandt show

Your r ights have gone.

 

Feel sorry for you lot there … and with with guns too.

 

In the uk when we went tetra and lost all comms to any scanner things changed badly

 

Mike in Scotland

 

From: main@Uniden.groups.io <main@Uniden.groups.io> On Behalf Of don robinson via Groups.Io
Sent: 10 November 2019 23:17
To: main@Uniden.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Uniden] crypto comm

 

Not "nuff said"; read the recent news about police offices- hundreds of them- convicted of terrible crimes, including murder, were still allowed to remain on the force and that was kept from the public. If you don't want to know right from wrong, that supports wrong and it just gets worse.

 

On Sunday, November 10, 2019, 10:16:51 AM PST, Don Curtis <don.curtis@...> wrote:

 

 

 

You all seem to forget... That unencrypted police radio means it is unencrypted for YOU and the criminals in town too. 

 

26 years as a police officer in Denver, CO and while not frequent, there were many times where (especially burglars, youth gangs and outlaw motorcycle groups) used scanners to avoid capture. 

 

Being able to listen to public safety radio is NOT a "right" but just a desire.  Public safety is a government function and the "government" is elected by you and represents the citizens.  The voting public has 100% control of public agencies. 

 

Nuff said. 

 

On November 10, 2019 10:59:00 AM "ihc53" <ihc53@...> wrote:

99 percent of police traffic should be in the clear, unencrypted.  And you are quite right, when everything is encrypted and in the shadows it will smack of "secret police."

 

With very few exceptions,  everything should be open to the taxpayers to hear.

 

Sent from my Galaxy Tab A

 

-------- Original message --------

From: "William Barrett, KW1B" <wbarrett@...>

Date: 11/9/19 5:23 PM (GMT-05:00)

Subject: [Uniden] crypto comm

 

I believe that citizens have the right and the responsibility to supervise

at a certain level.  Fully encrypted police comms are not accessaable,

while most are quite routine and do NOT require a high degree of

secrecy. 

 

In those few special other cases, there are methods of COMSEC

well-known to police and military communications people.  Simply

encryping everything is lazy and can lead to Secret Police Mindset.

Not something most people would favor.

 

Routine ops need to be in the clear.

 

   73

   bb

  NC

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Uniden.groups.io [mailto:main@Uniden.groups.io]On Behalf Of Shawn Benoit
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2019 15:45
To: main@uniden.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Uniden] P25 for Cheap

I'm pro encryption for police and EMS communications. Nothing will change that even though it's a hobby and I like to listen. 

 

On Sat, Nov 9, 2019 at 13:09 Joe M. <mch@...> wrote:

Is that because crime only happens at the
police station and doesn't affect communities?

Do you not care that you will be late to work because
there is an accident blocking your normal route?

Do you not care that you will be ADDING
to the problem (traffic) in the above case?

Are you fine with going to the mall when
there is an active shooter in the area?

If there is a felon loose in your neighborhood,
are you OK letting your kids go out to play?

A FOIA request will not solve any of these cases.
Encryption will not alert you to these cases.
Only clear communications will let you know WHEN you need to know it.

Joe M.

 


Re: crypto comm

Don Curtis <Don.Curtis@...>
 


Of course there are bad cops, and I guarantee you won't catch them by listening to dispatch. 

There's bad people in every group.   I would bet as a percentage, the police are way towards the bottom compared to other groups. 

There are close to 1 million sworn police officers in the US.   1% of 1 million is 10,000 and I seriously doubt there are 10,000 law breaking cops out there. 

Just saying... 

On November 10, 2019 4:17:44 PM "don robinson via Groups.Io" <don_551@...> wrote:

Not "nuff said"; read the recent news about police offices- hundreds of them- convicted of terrible crimes, including murder, were still allowed to remain on the force and that was kept from the public. If you don't want to know right from wrong, that supports wrong and it just gets worse.

On Sunday, November 10, 2019, 10:16:51 AM PST, Don Curtis <don.curtis@...> wrote:



You all seem to forget... That unencrypted police radio means it is unencrypted for YOU and the criminals in town too. 

26 years as a police officer in Denver, CO and while not frequent, there were many times where (especially burglars, youth gangs and outlaw motorcycle groups) used scanners to avoid capture. 

Being able to listen to public safety radio is NOT a "right" but just a desire.  Public safety is a government function and the "government" is elected by you and represents the citizens.  The voting public has 100% control of public agencies. 

Nuff said. 

On November 10, 2019 10:59:00 AM "ihc53" <ihc53@...> wrote:

99 percent of police traffic should be in the clear, unencrypted.  And you are quite right, when everything is encrypted and in the shadows it will smack of "secret police."

With very few exceptions,  everything should be open to the taxpayers to hear.

Sent from my Galaxy Tab A

-------- Original message --------
From: "William Barrett, KW1B" <wbarrett@...>
Date: 11/9/19 5:23 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: main@Uniden.groups.io
Subject: [Uniden] crypto comm

I believe that citizens have the right and the responsibility to supervise
at a certain level.  Fully encrypted police comms are not accessaable,
while most are quite routine and do NOT require a high degree of
secrecy. 
 
In those few special other cases, there are methods of COMSEC
well-known to police and military communications people.  Simply
encryping everything is lazy and can lead to Secret Police Mindset.
Not something most people would favor.
 
Routine ops need to be in the clear.
 
   73
   bb
  NC
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: main@Uniden.groups.io [mailto:main@Uniden.groups.io]On Behalf Of Shawn Benoit
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2019 15:45
To: main@uniden.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Uniden] P25 for Cheap

I'm pro encryption for police and EMS communications. Nothing will change that even though it's a hobby and I like to listen. 

On Sat, Nov 9, 2019 at 13:09 Joe M. <mch@...> wrote:
Is that because crime only happens at the
police station and doesn't affect communities?

Do you not care that you will be late to work because
there is an accident blocking your normal route?

Do you not care that you will be ADDING
to the problem (traffic) in the above case?

Are you fine with going to the mall when
there is an active shooter in the area?

If there is a felon loose in your neighborhood,
are you OK letting your kids go out to play?

A FOIA request will not solve any of these cases.
Encryption will not alert you to these cases.
Only clear communications will let you know WHEN you need to know it.

Joe M.



Re: crypto comm

Kirk Jones
 

a nice lively discussion hear the problem I had with encryption is I live near a shopping mall and they use in cryption only on the security 24/7 I assume the cover up the dirt and sweep it under the rug of what's going on so people don't get drift of it but I would like to be able to listen to it since I live about a mile and a half away to see what is going on to protect myself and to be of assistance to them if I saw


On Sun, Nov 10, 2019 at 6:17 PM, don robinson via Groups.Io
<don_551@...> wrote:
Not "nuff said"; read the recent news about police offices- hundreds of them- convicted of terrible crimes, including murder, were still allowed to remain on the force and that was kept from the public. If you don't want to know right from wrong, that supports wrong and it just gets worse.

On Sunday, November 10, 2019, 10:16:51 AM PST, Don Curtis <don.curtis@...> wrote:



You all seem to forget... That unencrypted police radio means it is unencrypted for YOU and the criminals in town too. 

26 years as a police officer in Denver, CO and while not frequent, there were many times where (especially burglars, youth gangs and outlaw motorcycle groups) used scanners to avoid capture. 

Being able to listen to public safety radio is NOT a "right" but just a desire.  Public safety is a government function and the "government" is elected by you and represents the citizens.  The voting public has 100% control of public agencies. 

Nuff said. 

On November 10, 2019 10:59:00 AM "ihc53" <ihc53@...> wrote:

99 percent of police traffic should be in the clear, unencrypted.  And you are quite right, when everything is encrypted and in the shadows it will smack of "secret police."

With very few exceptions,  everything should be open to the taxpayers to hear.

Sent from my Galaxy Tab A

-------- Original message --------
From: "William Barrett, KW1B" <wbarrett@...>
Date: 11/9/19 5:23 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: main@Uniden.groups.io
Subject: [Uniden] crypto comm

I believe that citizens have the right and the responsibility to supervise
at a certain level.  Fully encrypted police comms are not accessaable,
while most are quite routine and do NOT require a high degree of
secrecy. 
 
In those few special other cases, there are methods of COMSEC
well-known to police and military communications people.  Simply
encryping everything is lazy and can lead to Secret Police Mindset.
Not something most people would favor.
 
Routine ops need to be in the clear.
 
   73
   bb
  NC
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: main@Uniden.groups.io [mailto:main@Uniden.groups.io]On Behalf Of Shawn Benoit
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2019 15:45
To: main@uniden.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Uniden] P25 for Cheap

I'm pro encryption for police and EMS communications. Nothing will change that even though it's a hobby and I like to listen. 

On Sat, Nov 9, 2019 at 13:09 Joe M. <mch@...> wrote:
Is that because crime only happens at the
police station and doesn't affect communities?

Do you not care that you will be late to work because
there is an accident blocking your normal route?

Do you not care that you will be ADDING
to the problem (traffic) in the above case?

Are you fine with going to the mall when
there is an active shooter in the area?

If there is a felon loose in your neighborhood,
are you OK letting your kids go out to play?

A FOIA request will not solve any of these cases.
Encryption will not alert you to these cases.
Only clear communications will let you know WHEN you need to know it.

Joe M.


Re: crypto comm

Jeff Kenyon
 

Many people just assume that when a lot of agencies go digital it is game over when it comes to scanners.  Here in Rochester, NY for instance our police are on conventional UHF P-25 with more consisstent patching to a 700/800 MHz trunked system.  Many people are surprised when I tell them that scanners are available just so long as it isn’t encrypted.  Other people have just given up on a new scanner because of the changes in the way in which they are programmed.  


On Nov 10, 2019, at 4:47 PM, Pat Hines <fastpatone@...> wrote:

As a long time radio op, and Extra licensee on the amateur bands, I strongly disagree.  First, most criminals have no idea how to operate one of the complex scanners available today.  Second, with the amount of money the drug cartels generate, buying crypto gear and cryto-compliant transceivers are well within their budgets.  Heck, some of them are wealthy enough to buy nuclear weapons should they want them.

Basically, the local cop argument against prohibiting encryptetd cop channels is a non-starter.


Re: crypto comm

Teton Amateur Radio Repeater Association (TARRA)
 

Most anything around here they feel needs to be "secret" they get on the phone for. That takes care of the encryption.

Mick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe M."
To: main@Uniden.groups.io
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2019 12:42:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Uniden] crypto comm

> That's where brains come in. You never plan raids over the air. That
> should be done in the briefing room.
>
> What you seem to forget is that the NEIGHBORS of those criminals can
> monitor, too, and provide valuable tips. Then the criminals go "bye bye"
> to a place where they cannot monitor. Encryption reduces the chances of
> catching them and that means more crime. Who wants that?
>
> Again, it's the "we can do everything ourselves" mentality that prevails
> here. Or it might be the "don't make more work for us" mentality in some
> cases. Because prosecutions require a lot of paperwork.
>
> Joe M.
>
> On 11/10/2019 1:16 PM, Don Curtis wrote:
> >
> > You all seem to forget... That unencrypted police radio means it is
> > unencrypted for YOU and the criminals in town too.
>
>
>
>
--


Re: crypto comm

Joe M.
 

I would agree if you could get a license for the encryption key.

Otherwise, apples and racecars.

Most voters are not technical enough to know the details and will blindly follow the "we need this for your safety" spin by elected leaders. Many also could care less, and if it doesn't affect them they will not vote for changes.

Joe M.

On 11/10/2019 5:56 PM, Don Curtis wrote:
You don't like it, get your city/county/state/federal lawmakers to enact
a law prohibiting encryption.

If enough voters think like you, should be a piece of cake.

Until then, you will have live with it.

Just like I have to live with not being allowed to use amateur radio
equipment without a license even though the airwaves belong to the public.



<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
Virus-free. www.avg.com
<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>


<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

1321 - 1340 of 1485