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Re: crypto comm
Gigu chan
Agreed.
From: main@Uniden.groups.io <main@Uniden.groups.io> On Behalf Of Marty Toomajian
Rather than think I know better than what these agencies need, I thank my lucky stars that I could listen to some great communications in the 80's just by programming a Bearcat or a Radio Shack Pro-200X.
I believe I lived through a unique time when crystals weren't needed and Tom Kneitel published frequencies that are today encrypted 99+% of the time.
It was fun. I was fortunate. I'm thankful and I've moved on to other hobbies.
On Sun, Nov 10, 2019, 1:07 PM ihc53 <ihc53@...> wrote:
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Re: crypto comm
Jeff Kenyon
Agreed, some places like in North Dakota, and some places down south go as far as encrypting public works and parks and rec. I noticed that in a lot of areas around Chicago they’ve encrypted, but not in Chicago itself. I’ve noticed that a lot of places down south more then anywhere else they do a lot of encryption. In a couple of weeks I’ll be going to see my mom and she lives in Louden County Tennessee. The last few years I’ve been down there they have had some encryption, bbut upon checking rr it looks like both police and fire are encrypted now full time? On the county law talkgroups encryption would come and go but not on fire/EMS. I’ll let everyone know, but I don’t know what to expect there. I know that all law enforcement in Knox County is encrypted, and that is the nearest major city she is near. What are people doing in places that have a lot of encryption who want most of the coms to be in the clear? There never has been any posts anywhere to indicate any activity that has taken place as far as protesting the encryption.
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On Nov 10, 2019, at 9:26 PM, Rich <rk911forums@...> wrote:
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Re: crypto comm
Mark French
In Houston back in the 70s and 80s we had several cases of crooks using scanners but they were caught because they didn't' know the lingo and the simplex frequencies being used. This was in the analoge days.before the digital systems came on line. The only complaint I have is the HFD Tac channels being encrypted. I can see the arson and investigations channels being encrypted but the fire scene channels I just don't see the reason for it.
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Re: crypto comm
don robinson
One story for you: These California police officers were charged with brutalizing loved ones. So why are so many still carrying a gun? ....and that's just California.
On Sunday, November 10, 2019, 05:57:07 PM PST, Rich <rk911forums@...> wrote:
one or possibly two come to mind. certainly not hundreds. and a police officer convicted of a crime will no longer be a police officer. ‘73 rich
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Re: crypto comm
Rich
i spent nearly 30-yrs working in and managing a large consolidated 9-1-1 center in suburban chicago. can't recall any incidents in which the bad guys used a scanner to evade police. the criminals aren't that smart.
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tactical, warrant service, fugitive apprehension and the like should absolutely be encrypted 24/7. the rest, not so much. Rich via iPad
On Nov 10, 2019, at 17:58, Walter C. Powis, Sr <wcpowissr@...> wrote:
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Re: crypto comm
Rich
got a source you can cite, joe?
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Rich via iPad
On Nov 10, 2019, at 19:51, Joe M. <mch@nb.net> wrote:
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Re: P25 for Cheap
I love our EDACS system and will be sad to see it go, it has been a workhorse, extremely reliable. We have XL-200 portables and will go P25 eventually.
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Ed KG5UN Abilene, TX
On Nov 10, 2019, at 7:42 PM, Jim Walls <jim@...> wrote:
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Re: crypto comm
Donald Lambert <banjodhl@...>
Don; Got that right.... don/k0kuz ZUT - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Thought for the week: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Without CW it's just CB -Jess- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Any and all communications herein are the sole property of the email sender and originator. Any electronic intercept of this communication constitutes a violation of 50 U.S.C. § 1861(b)(2) of The Patriot Act. The use of this information in informal or formal proceedings, charges, investigations or indictments is strictly prohibited and rendered null and void if obtained without a warrant." --------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------
On Sunday, November 10, 2019, 2:56:25 PM PST, Don Curtis <don.curtis@...> wrote: You don't like it, get your city/county/state/federal lawmakers to enact a law prohibiting encryption. If enough voters think like you, should be a piece of cake. Until then, you will have live with it. Just like I have to live with not being allowed to use amateur radio equipment without a license even though the airwaves belong to the public.
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Re: crypto comm
Rich
one or possibly two come to mind. certainly not hundreds. and a police officer convicted of a crime will no longer be a police officer. ‘73 rich
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Re: crypto comm
Walter C. Powis, Sr
Just a personal thought. After spending many years in communications,
security and such, I am convinced that there are some things that the general
public has absolutely no need to know! Just my 2 cents!!
W3WP
From: don robinson via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2019 6:10 PM
To: main@Uniden.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Uniden] crypto comm Our officers go to their cell phones when
things get so risky.
On Sunday, November 10, 2019, 09:58:41 AM PST, Shawn Benoit
<shawnbenoit@...> wrote:
That sounds like a huge training issue. Not a problem with encryption.
Most people who demand things to be in the clear seem to have some issues
with authority. They are also the same people who say things like "I pay your
salary" or "the taxpayers MUST be able to hear the police." They also spout off
bout conspiracy theories about their local police.
The officers need encryption for secure communications. There are all sorts
of reasons why for example the following things are common over the air:
-victim info (sexual/Juvenile/domestic violence)
-NCIC (CJIS protected)
-Key holder info
-Suspect names (NOT proven convicted people)
-Officer locations/calls
-Officer to officer discussions (trying to figure out
options/enforcement)
-Medical info/conditions
This goes on. These guys are being attacked on a regular basis. The least
we can do is give them secure comms which is dirt cheap and included in just
about every radio off the shelf nowadays.
Also, question why you hold grudges with your local police and think they
owe you something.
On Sat, Nov 9, 2019 at
21:51 jim myers <kd7eir@...> wrote:
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Re: crypto comm
Joe M.
Except that many of them WERE caught by the public complaining
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about their actions, and many of those were heard via scanners. Just sayin'. Agreed there only a few bad apples by percentage comparison, but hiding actions is going to do nothing but increase those numbers. Only criminals should fear the sunlight. Joe M.
On 11/10/2019 6:44 PM, Don Curtis wrote:
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Re: P25 for Cheap
Jim Walls
On 11/10/2019 15:29, don robinson via
Groups.Io wrote:
EDACS was a proprietary format of GE (later acquired by Ericsson then Harris) (not Johnson). It became unsupported shortly after Harris bought the company. It was old, unsupported, and not compatible with anybody else. It needed to go. By going with P-25, your city had the ability to go with any one of several manufacturers. Because the old field radios were EDACS radios, they all had to be replaced in order to use the new open standard. A forklift replacement of almost any system (computers, radio, trash truck, whatever) costs money - that's reality. -- 73 ------------------------------------- Jim Walls - K6CCC jim@... Ofc: 818-548-4804 http://members.dslextreme.com/users/k6ccc/ AMSAT Member 32537 - WSWSS Member 395
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Re: crypto comm
Don Curtis <Don.Curtis@...>
And that's the whole point of getting enough people to agree with you and vote for people/laws that you all agree with.
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If it's an important issue for you, write letters to the editor of a local paper trying to educate them. Talk to your representative and see if they are willing to support your position. That's the system we live in, and how things get done... Or not. People's choice.
On November 10, 2019 4:36:14 PM "Joe M." <mch@nb.net> wrote:
I would agree if you could get a license for the encryption key.
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Re: crypto comm
Too flippin right Look on youtube Poor dirt farmer and the eric brandt show Your r ights have gone.
Feel sorry for you lot there … and with with guns too.
In the uk when we went tetra and lost all comms to any scanner things changed badly
Mike in Scotland
From: main@Uniden.groups.io <main@Uniden.groups.io> On Behalf Of don robinson via Groups.Io
Sent: 10 November 2019 23:17 To: main@Uniden.groups.io Subject: Re: [Uniden] crypto comm
Not "nuff said"; read the recent news about police offices- hundreds of them- convicted of terrible crimes, including murder, were still allowed to remain on the force and that was kept from the public. If you don't want to know right from wrong, that supports wrong and it just gets worse.
On Sunday, November 10, 2019, 10:16:51 AM PST, Don Curtis <don.curtis@...> wrote:
You all seem to forget... That unencrypted police radio means it is unencrypted for YOU and the criminals in town too.
26 years as a police officer in Denver, CO and while not frequent, there were many times where (especially burglars, youth gangs and outlaw motorcycle groups) used scanners to avoid capture.
Being able to listen to public safety radio is NOT a "right" but just a desire. Public safety is a government function and the "government" is elected by you and represents the citizens. The voting public has 100% control of public agencies.
Nuff said.
On November 10, 2019 10:59:00 AM "ihc53" <ihc53@...> wrote:
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Re: crypto comm
Don Curtis <Don.Curtis@...>
There's bad people in every group. I would bet as a percentage, the police are way towards the bottom compared to other groups. There are close to 1 million sworn police officers in the US. 1% of 1 million is 10,000 and I seriously doubt there are 10,000 law breaking cops out there. Just saying...
On November 10, 2019 4:17:44 PM "don robinson via Groups.Io" <don_551@...> wrote:
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Re: crypto comm
Kirk Jones
a nice lively discussion hear the problem I had with encryption is I live near a shopping mall and they use in cryption only on the security 24/7 I assume the cover up the dirt and sweep it under the rug of what's going on so people don't get drift of it but I would like to be able to listen to it since I live about a mile and a half away to see what is going on to protect myself and to be of assistance to them if I saw
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Re: crypto comm
Jeff Kenyon
Many people just assume that when a lot of agencies go digital it is game over when it comes to scanners. Here in Rochester, NY for instance our police are on conventional UHF P-25 with more consisstent patching to a 700/800 MHz trunked system. Many people are surprised when I tell them that scanners are available just so long as it isn’t encrypted. Other people have just given up on a new scanner because of the changes in the way in which they are programmed.
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On Nov 10, 2019, at 4:47 PM, Pat Hines <fastpatone@...> wrote:
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Re: crypto comm
Teton Amateur Radio Repeater Association (TARRA)
Most anything around here they feel needs to be "secret" they get
on the phone for. That takes care of the encryption.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe M." To: main@Uniden.groups.io Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2019 12:42:47 PM Subject: Re: [Uniden] crypto comm > That's where brains come in. You never plan raids over the air. That > should be done in the briefing room. > > What you seem to forget is that the NEIGHBORS of those criminals can > monitor, too, and provide valuable tips. Then the criminals go "bye bye" > to a place where they cannot monitor. Encryption reduces the chances of > catching them and that means more crime. Who wants that? > > Again, it's the "we can do everything ourselves" mentality that prevails > here. Or it might be the "don't make more work for us" mentality in some > cases. Because prosecutions require a lot of paperwork. > > Joe M. > > On 11/10/2019 1:16 PM, Don Curtis wrote: > > > > You all seem to forget... That unencrypted police radio means it is > > unencrypted for YOU and the criminals in town too. > > > > --
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Re: crypto comm
Joe M.
I would agree if you could get a license for the encryption key.
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Otherwise, apples and racecars. Most voters are not technical enough to know the details and will blindly follow the "we need this for your safety" spin by elected leaders. Many also could care less, and if it doesn't affect them they will not vote for changes. Joe M.
On 11/10/2019 5:56 PM, Don Curtis wrote:
You don't like it, get your city/county/state/federal lawmakers to enact
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Re: P25 for Cheap
derek <derek@...>
It's all fun and games when it's someone else's money.
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: "don robinson via Groups.Io" <don_551@...>
Date: 11/10/19 5:30 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: main@Uniden.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Uniden] P25 for Cheap
I wish you would have talked to my city before they dumped their Johnson Edacs radios for P25 Motorola equipment, spending $20 million to start, then another $20 million to make the new radios finally work.
On Sunday, November 10, 2019, 12:05:38 PM PST, Jim Walls <jim@...> wrote:
On 11/10/2019 08:41, don robinson via Groups.Io wrote:
> It's all been added struggle since digital was forced on cities of the US. Where do people get this idea? No one was forced to go digital - period. Narrowband yes by 1/1/2013 for VHF high and UHF (but not for VHF low or 800 - and 900 already was narrowband), but no requirement to go to digital. > Then they had to replace or modify their equipment to motorola monopoly radios and transmitters and they didn't work without modification Say what? If they are analog, they can use anybody's radios. If an agency went digital, they most likely went with the P-25 standard. This is an open standard and anybody CAN build equipment to the P-25 standard - and essentially all the major manufacturers do. This is a huge advantage because you are NOT locked into a specific radio manufacturer. I run a regional P-25 trunking system for a living. We have radios from Harris, Kenwood, Tait, EF Johnson, and Motorola (maybe more that I am not remembering or aware of). They all work just fine without any modification on our system. > more millions $$$$ must be spent annually to maintain and update that same equipment. Uh, ANY radio system needs to be maintained. So do the user radios. Nothing new here except that the newer radios are far faster and easier to maintain. We can fully tune a portable radio in about six minutes - hook it up to the service monitor, push the AutoTune button and when it beeps, it's fully aligned. As for the infrastructure, the system will tell us about most problems, and many repairs or re-configurations can be done without ever leaving the Radio Shop. -- 73 ------------------------------------- Jim Walls - K6CCC jim@... Ofc: 818-548-4804 http://members.dslextreme.com/users/k6ccc/ AMSAT Member 32537 - WSWSS Member 395
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