Date   

Re: crypto comm

Donald Lambert <banjodhl@...>
 

:-))

The levity was needed for this thread....

don/k0kuz

ZUT

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Thought for the week:
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Without CW it's just CB
-Jess-
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Any and all communications herein are the sole property of the email sender and originator. Any electronic intercept of this communication constitutes a violation of 50 U.S.C. § 1861(b)(2) of The Patriot Act. The use of this information in informal or formal proceedings, charges, investigations or indictments is strictly prohibited and rendered null and void if obtained without a warrant."
---------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------


On Sunday, November 10, 2019, 9:57:49 AM PST, William Barrett, KW1B <wbarrett@...> wrote:


"Secret Squirrels"
 
 
   73
KW1B
-----Original Message-----
From: main@Uniden.groups.io [mailto:main@Uniden.groups.io]On Behalf Of jim myers
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2019 21:48
To: main@uniden.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Uniden] crypto comm

We have about 9 LE agencies in my county. ONE of them insists on being encrypted 24/7. A few years ago they had an officer chasing a suspect across several municipalities. None of the other agencies could communicate with them in real time, and by the time their dispatch called the agency that he was currently chasing his suspect through with his location, several minutes had passed, and he was nowhere neat that location. Sadly, he was found shot in the head at the end of a road part way up a mountain.

At the time this happened, they were also on a standalone communications system that isolated them from ALL other LE agencies in the county. They finally decided to join the shared radio system, but STILL insist upon 24/7 encryption for their talkgroups. They are still the ONLY encrypted agency. They can switch to a shared, unencrypted, mutual channel if they need assistance. The last time they needed help, no one in their department know what channel to switch to...


Re: P25 for Cheap

Mark Lassman
 

Exactly. With analog, you could hear a weak signal if you were close enough, but with digital, you’re absolutely correct: it’s all or nothing. If you’re not 100% “in” you’re not “in” at all. 

Please explain to me how digital makes things better and safer for our police and firefighters? 

On Nov 9, 2019, at 5:02 PM, KA9QJG <KA9QJG@...> wrote:

With the New Digital you either  hear it or you don’t  when the battery gets weak…

 _._,_._,_


Re: crypto comm

Teton Amateur Radio Repeater Association (TARRA)
 

"government" is
> elected by you and represents the citizens. The voting public has 100%
> control of public agencies.
Wow, guess we know what you are smoking down there in Colorado!

Mick

----- Original Message -----
From: Don Curtis
To: main@Uniden.groups.io
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2019 11:16:24 AM
Subject: Re: [Uniden] crypto comm

>
> You all seem to forget... That unencrypted police radio means it is
> unencrypted for YOU and the criminals in town too.
>
> 26 years as a police officer in Denver, CO and while not frequent, there
> were many times where (especially burglars, youth gangs and outlaw
> motorcycle groups) used scanners to avoid capture.
>
> Being able to listen to public safety radio is NOT a "right" but just a
> desire. Public safety is a government function and the "government" is
> elected by you and represents the citizens. The voting public has 100%
> control of public agencies.
>
> Nuff said.
>
>
> On November 10, 2019 10:59:00 AM "ihc53" wrote:
> > 99 percent of police traffic should be in the clear, unencrypted. And you
> > are quite right, when everything is encrypted and in the shadows it will
> > smack of "secret police."
> >
> > With very few exceptions, everything should be open to the taxpayers to hear.
> >
> > Sent from my Galaxy Tab A
> >
> > -------- Original message --------
> > From: "William Barrett, KW1B"
> > Date: 11/9/19 5:23 PM (GMT-05:00)
> > To: main@Uniden.groups.io
> > Subject: [Uniden] crypto comm
> >
> > I believe that citizens have the right and the responsibility to supervise
> > at a certain level. Fully encrypted police comms are not accessaable,
> > while most are quite routine and do NOT require a high degree of
> > secrecy.
> >
> > In those few special other cases, there are methods of COMSEC
> > well-known to police and military communications people. Simply
> > encryping everything is lazy and can lead to Secret Police Mindset.
> > Not something most people would favor.
> >
> > Routine ops need to be in the clear.
> >
> > 73
> > bb
> > NC
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: main@Uniden.groups.io [mailto:main@Uniden.groups.io]On Behalf Of
> > Shawn Benoit
> > Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2019 15:45
> > To: main@uniden.groups.io
> > Subject: Re: [Uniden] P25 for Cheap
> >
> >
> > I'm pro encryption for police and EMS communications. Nothing will change
> > that even though it's a hobby and I like to listen.
> >
> > On Sat, Nov 9, 2019 at 13:09 Joe M. wrote:
> > Is that because crime only happens at the
> > police station and doesn't affect communities?
> >
> > Do you not care that you will be late to work because
> > there is an accident blocking your normal route?
> >
> > Do you not care that you will be ADDING
> > to the problem (traffic) in the above case?
> >
> > Are you fine with going to the mall when
> > there is an active shooter in the area?
> >
> > If there is a felon loose in your neighborhood,
> > are you OK letting your kids go out to play?
> >
> > A FOIA request will not solve any of these cases.
> > Encryption will not alert you to these cases.
> > Only clear communications will let you know WHEN you need to know it.
> >
> > Joe M.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
--


Re: crypto comm

Jerry Strahan
 

Here is a stupid chief...went to DMR,going to wait until people buy the expensive scanners , then encrypt. 
Minden  Louisiana. 
Jerry 


On Sun, Nov 10, 2019 at 12:16 PM, Don Curtis
<Don.Curtis@...> wrote:

You all seem to forget... That unencrypted police radio means it is unencrypted for YOU and the criminals in town too. 

26 years as a police officer in Denver, CO and while not frequent, there were many times where (especially burglars, youth gangs and outlaw motorcycle groups) used scanners to avoid capture. 

Being able to listen to public safety radio is NOT a "right" but just a desire.  Public safety is a government function and the "government" is elected by you and represents the citizens.  The voting public has 100% control of public agencies. 

Nuff said. 

On November 10, 2019 10:59:00 AM "ihc53" <ihc53@...> wrote:

99 percent of police traffic should be in the clear, unencrypted.  And you are quite right, when everything is encrypted and in the shadows it will smack of "secret police."

With very few exceptions,  everything should be open to the taxpayers to hear.

Sent from my Galaxy Tab A

-------- Original message --------
From: "William Barrett, KW1B" <wbarrett@...>
Date: 11/9/19 5:23 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: main@Uniden.groups.io
Subject: [Uniden] crypto comm

I believe that citizens have the right and the responsibility to supervise
at a certain level.  Fully encrypted police comms are not accessaable,
while most are quite routine and do NOT require a high degree of
secrecy. 
 
In those few special other cases, there are methods of COMSEC
well-known to police and military communications people.  Simply
encryping everything is lazy and can lead to Secret Police Mindset.
Not something most people would favor.
 
Routine ops need to be in the clear.
 
   73
   bb
  NC
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: main@Uniden.groups.io [mailto:main@Uniden.groups.io]On Behalf Of Shawn Benoit
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2019 15:45
To: main@uniden.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Uniden] P25 for Cheap

I'm pro encryption for police and EMS communications. Nothing will change that even though it's a hobby and I like to listen. 

On Sat, Nov 9, 2019 at 13:09 Joe M. <mch@...> wrote:
Is that because crime only happens at the
police station and doesn't affect communities?

Do you not care that you will be late to work because
there is an accident blocking your normal route?

Do you not care that you will be ADDING
to the problem (traffic) in the above case?

Are you fine with going to the mall when
there is an active shooter in the area?

If there is a felon loose in your neighborhood,
are you OK letting your kids go out to play?

A FOIA request will not solve any of these cases.
Encryption will not alert you to these cases.
Only clear communications will let you know WHEN you need to know it.

Joe M.


Re: crypto comm

Don Curtis <Don.Curtis@...>
 


You all seem to forget... That unencrypted police radio means it is unencrypted for YOU and the criminals in town too. 

26 years as a police officer in Denver, CO and while not frequent, there were many times where (especially burglars, youth gangs and outlaw motorcycle groups) used scanners to avoid capture. 

Being able to listen to public safety radio is NOT a "right" but just a desire.  Public safety is a government function and the "government" is elected by you and represents the citizens.  The voting public has 100% control of public agencies. 

Nuff said. 

On November 10, 2019 10:59:00 AM "ihc53" <ihc53@...> wrote:

99 percent of police traffic should be in the clear, unencrypted.  And you are quite right, when everything is encrypted and in the shadows it will smack of "secret police."

With very few exceptions,  everything should be open to the taxpayers to hear.

Sent from my Galaxy Tab A

-------- Original message --------
From: "William Barrett, KW1B" <wbarrett@...>
Date: 11/9/19 5:23 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: main@Uniden.groups.io
Subject: [Uniden] crypto comm

I believe that citizens have the right and the responsibility to supervise
at a certain level.  Fully encrypted police comms are not accessaable,
while most are quite routine and do NOT require a high degree of
secrecy. 
 
In those few special other cases, there are methods of COMSEC
well-known to police and military communications people.  Simply
encryping everything is lazy and can lead to Secret Police Mindset.
Not something most people would favor.
 
Routine ops need to be in the clear.
 
   73
   bb
  NC
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: main@Uniden.groups.io [mailto:main@Uniden.groups.io]On Behalf Of Shawn Benoit
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2019 15:45
To: main@uniden.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Uniden] P25 for Cheap

I'm pro encryption for police and EMS communications. Nothing will change that even though it's a hobby and I like to listen. 

On Sat, Nov 9, 2019 at 13:09 Joe M. <mch@...> wrote:
Is that because crime only happens at the
police station and doesn't affect communities?

Do you not care that you will be late to work because
there is an accident blocking your normal route?

Do you not care that you will be ADDING
to the problem (traffic) in the above case?

Are you fine with going to the mall when
there is an active shooter in the area?

If there is a felon loose in your neighborhood,
are you OK letting your kids go out to play?

A FOIA request will not solve any of these cases.
Encryption will not alert you to these cases.
Only clear communications will let you know WHEN you need to know it.

Joe M.


Re: P25 for Cheap

Joe M.
 

It's useless to add decryption when you will never get the key.
(I know - the users will pay off the system operators for them.) ;->

Joe M.

On 11/10/2019 11:23 AM, Donald Lambert via Groups.Io wrote:
Never is a very long time. Sad to say that if the manufacturers see a
big enough profit in it they can buy a dispensation from the F.C.C.


Re: P25 for Cheap

Donald Lambert <banjodhl@...>
 

Never is a very long time. Sad to say that if the manufacturers see a big enough profit in it they can buy a dispensation from the F.C.C.

Very little if anything (that I know of) has been done by the F.C.C. to curtail the TV and grow light manufactures products from emitting stray rf being emitted from their products.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Thought for the week:
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Without CW it's just CB
-Jess-
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Any and all communications herein are the sole property of the email sender and originator. Any electronic intercept of this communication constitutes a violation of 50 U.S.C. § 1861(b)(2) of The Patriot Act. The use of this information in informal or formal proceedings, charges, investigations or indictments is strictly prohibited and rendered null and void if obtained without a warrant."
---------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------


On Saturday, November 9, 2019, 6:37:03 PM PST, Joe M. <mch@...> wrote:


I agree if by "Won’t be long" you mean "NEVER".

There are a few issues preventing this.

1. The manufacturers will never make decryption available. It would
never pass FCC Type Acceptance for a consumer product since it would
violate FCC rules.

2. The manufacturers will never try to pull one over on the FCC because
they would be making products intended to violate FCC law. Any
manufacturer who tries this will soon be out of business due to FCC
fines which would escalate with each violation. Nobody has pockets that
deep - especially to pacify a bunch of scanner users.

3. Let's say the above is wrong and they can add decryption. You really
think the system owner is going to give YOU the key? Without that, you
can try 1 key per second and still never find the right one in your
lifetime. If it were that simple there would be PC software that would
decrypt.

Again, never gonna happen. Not in a commercial consumer product.

Joe M.


On 11/9/2019 8:11 PM, huntwildturkey8254 via Groups.Io wrote:
> Won’t be long, and scanner companies will be making encrypted radio
> scanners.
> BJN
>
>
>> On Nov 9, 2019, at 19:02, KA9QJG <KA9QJG@...> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> Robert  . That was  very well said  I have  been the Communications
>> over 50 yrs  US Navy , Law Enforcement , 911 Dispatcher  and Ham
>> Radio,  I live in N/W Indiana  near Chicago and had to buy tie
>> expensive Uniden SDS-100  Just to hear My local PD/FD  and some is
>> Encrypted ,And I have worked  in Law Enforcement  Yes in some cases it
>> is needed,  But not for general  Communications .. We actually have a
>> few FB groups that are  listen and posting Live incidents with Audio
>> and Video and Pictures  , This is very dangerous and illegal . Also if
>> you  have enough money and want a Motorola APX  radio that the PD use
>> just  go to E bay and other places  some will even program the radios
>> for add  More money and Yes you can get the Encryption too . Just do
>> not get caught Even if the  Scanners  companies  would make  decoders
>> it is still illegal for us to Monitor  unless We are Authorized  by
>> the System administrator  of any system
>>
>> Happy Scanning while We can
>>
>> Don KA9QJG
>>
>> Ps  in Working Law Enforcement and a 911  Communications Dispatcher
>> Many yrs ago  I know of many cases where a Scanner listener have
>> called and helped out many times , one time when We has a Sgt call for
>> help His battery was  almost dead and the Dispatcher  did not hear
>> him,  But a scanner listener a block away did and called the
>> dispatcher and  was able to get him the help he needed  saving his
>> life and  catching the alleged  bad guys ,of course this was the good
>> ol analog days With the New Digital you either  hear it or you don’t
>>  when the battery gets weak…
>>
>> *From:*main@Uniden.groups.io [mailto:main@Uniden.groups.io] *On Behalf
>> Of *Robert A Klamp
>> *Sent:* Saturday, November 09, 2019 4:42 PM
>> *To:* main@Uniden.groups.io
>> *Subject:* Re: [Uniden] P25 for Cheap
>>
>> As intriguing as everyone's opinion on encryption is here that fact of
>> the matter. Ever since people started running streaming media of real
>> time police traffic enc use has skyrocketed. Broadcastify and Radio
>> Reference are your two biggest problem in the scanner world. I
>> remember having to go buy a book of all the local frequencies, having
>> to know how to program them into your scanner or radio, then having
>> the know how to distinguish what was being used for what. You had to
>> do it all your self or instead of buying the book you could throw on
>> the attenuator on your radio and drive around your area doing
>> frequency searches and seeing what hits you got. The big problem with
>> everything being one trunked system is everything is repeated there is
>> no more switch to 5 for simplex ops really happening anymore. Well
>> there is but not in very many places (at least where I live) I
>> remember when the biggest most populated county in my listening area
>> was VHF and all the tactical channels were vhf simplex. They have
>> since encrypted everything with AES256 on a county wide trunked
>> systems with a few different sites and multiple towers for each site.
>> The days of just throwing on your scanner and hearing what's going on
>> are pretty dead. Between CAD systems, encryption, cell phones,
>> cellular PTT like zello or worse yet first net, and many other factors
>> are becoming more and more popular. With the UHF T Band give/take back
>> police have less room in a frequency spectrum that was already
>> overcrowded but worked well for big cities it penetrated buildings and
>> other nuisances well and didn't really propagate to much so there was
>> much bleed over from other places half the country away like low band
>> and sometimes vhf have problems with. Then you have broadcastify just
>> spilling public safety radio traffic out for anybody who want it's
>> like oil from a tanker crash. Add that with almost every frequency in
>> use around the country being reported and published on radio reference
>> for any old schmuck to go look up and you start to see the problem. To
>> much info is readily available to the public. When my small area radio
>> monitoring group decided to stop keeping our own records of data in
>> our area and publish it all on radio reference because the owner of
>> that site hasn't made enough money yet exploiting are once exuberant
>> and lively hobby I saw the end sneaking up fast. But it's not my radio
>> clubs fault i blame radio reference and broadcastify were a criminal
>> can tune in clock patrol traffic and anything else they may need to
>> time and commit crimes with little to no resistance from public safety
>> already knowing what to expect. Or have a lookout listening to there
>> it on there smart phone when he used to have to have some kind of
>> skill with radios to listen to what he can now here with a click of a
>> mouse or worse yet an app on his smart phone. And now we have even
>> dumbed down the hobby further by putting the entire radio reference
>> database in the scanner for so all you have to do is download the
>> latest update and put in your zip code and pop everything from police
>> to public safety are preloaded with the latest information from the
>> biggest threat to our hobby. But wait in case you are so radio
>> incompetent that you don't even know how to lock out unwanted channels
>> don't worry you can just select the correct service tags to hear what
>> you want if your a criminal just lock out all but police services if
>> your a fire bug just lock out all but fire. These problems are not
>> going away they are just getting worse as we enable more and more
>> people who didn't have access to these comms easy access everything
>> they could want and use to the disadvantage of the public and public
>> safety. So of course police will encrypt. Fire will encrypt. And even
>> ems will encrypt there is to much much information available that once
>> upon a time was not. The part of this that makes me just sick is there
>> is one man behind it who hands out little freebies to those that help
>> him destroy our hobby while he take the big payday from
>> uniden,Whistler, and users of both his websites. Stop enabling him!
>> And the last thing I will bring up is the communications act of or the
>> communications privacy act of 1986 I believe should cover live
>> streaming  but for some reason that is loop hole. Make streaming
>> illegal and keep what you hear to yourself this used to be common
>> sense but now we have threads on radiorefernce with titles funniest
>> thing heard one scanner, best call heard on a scanner, active
>> emergency ops on your scanner and so on and so forth. When you ask
>> yourself why is my area going encrypted and why is my 700 dollar
>> scanner now a paper weight just do a search of what info is readily
>> available for your area and what people have posted about what they
>> are hearing in your area things should become a little more clear at
>> that point. I have a lot more to say but I will stop there for more
>> information on the legalities of disclosing what I'd heard on your
>> scanner please see the following link.
>>
>> https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2511
>>
>> And I know I have upset some people but these are just my thoughts and
>> opinions your allowed to have yours please allow me to have mine,
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
>>
>> -------- Original message --------
>>
>> From: Shawn Benoit <shawnbenoit@...>
>>
>> Date: 11/9/19 14:45 (GMT-06:00)
>>
>> To: main@uniden.groups.io
>>
>> Subject: Re: [Uniden] P25 for Cheap
>>
>> I'm pro encryption for police and EMS communications. Nothing will
>> change that even though it's a hobby and I like to listen.
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 9, 2019 at 13:09 Joe M. <mch@... <mailto:mch@...>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>    Is that because crime only happens at the
>>    police station and doesn't affect communities?
>>
>>    Do you not care that you will be late to work because
>>    there is an accident blocking your normal route?
>>
>>    Do you not care that you will be ADDING
>>    to the problem (traffic) in the above case?
>>
>>    Are you fine with going to the mall when
>>    there is an active shooter in the area?
>>
>>    If there is a felon loose in your neighborhood,
>>    are you OK letting your kids go out to play?
>>
>>    A FOIA request will not solve any of these cases.
>>    Encryption will not alert you to these cases.
>>    Only clear communications will let you know WHEN you need to know it.
>>
>>    Joe M.
>>
>>    On 11/9/2019 12:54 PM, Shawn Benoit wrote:
>>    > Sure, you can get access to police radio recordings by a FOI
>>    request (to
>>    > be nosy). No one except the police need real-time access to
>>    encrypted
>>    > communications. Problem solved.
>>
>>
>>
>
> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
>     Virus-free. www.avg.com
> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
>
>
> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>




Re: P25 for Cheap

Donald Lambert <banjodhl@...>
 

Mark;

I as well.

don/k0kuz

ZUT

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Thought for the week:
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Without CW it's just CB
-Jess-
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Any and all communications herein are the sole property of the email sender and originator. Any electronic intercept of this communication constitutes a violation of 50 U.S.C. § 1861(b)(2) of The Patriot Act. The use of this information in informal or formal proceedings, charges, investigations or indictments is strictly prohibited and rendered null and void if obtained without a warrant."
---------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------


On Saturday, November 9, 2019, 6:29:15 PM PST, Mark Lassman via Groups.Io <kb6kgx@...> wrote:


CHP does NOT use encryption. I listen to them all the time.

Where did you get that from?

> On Nov 9, 2019, at 9:15 AM, Teton Amateur Radio Repeater Association (TARRA) <tarra@...> wrote:
> > The California Highway Patrol uses encryption but publishes an as-it-happens log on the web. Go figure.




Re: TOO MUCH EMAIL? READ THIS!

Roxie2401
 

Or just select the "Daily Summary" as your Subscription preference.


Re: crypto comm

ihc53
 

99 percent of police traffic should be in the clear, unencrypted.  And you are quite right, when everything is encrypted and in the shadows it will smack of "secret police."

With very few exceptions,  everything should be open to the taxpayers to hear.

Sent from my Galaxy Tab A

-------- Original message --------
From: "William Barrett, KW1B" <wbarrett@...>
Date: 11/9/19 5:23 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: main@Uniden.groups.io
Subject: [Uniden] crypto comm

I believe that citizens have the right and the responsibility to supervise
at a certain level.  Fully encrypted police comms are not accessaable,
while most are quite routine and do NOT require a high degree of
secrecy. 
 
In those few special other cases, there are methods of COMSEC
well-known to police and military communications people.  Simply
encryping everything is lazy and can lead to Secret Police Mindset.
Not something most people would favor.
 
Routine ops need to be in the clear.
 
   73
   bb
  NC
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: main@Uniden.groups.io [mailto:main@Uniden.groups.io]On Behalf Of Shawn Benoit
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2019 15:45
To: main@uniden.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Uniden] P25 for Cheap

I'm pro encryption for police and EMS communications. Nothing will change that even though it's a hobby and I like to listen. 

On Sat, Nov 9, 2019 at 13:09 Joe M. <mch@...> wrote:
Is that because crime only happens at the
police station and doesn't affect communities?

Do you not care that you will be late to work because
there is an accident blocking your normal route?

Do you not care that you will be ADDING
to the problem (traffic) in the above case?

Are you fine with going to the mall when
there is an active shooter in the area?

If there is a felon loose in your neighborhood,
are you OK letting your kids go out to play?

A FOIA request will not solve any of these cases.
Encryption will not alert you to these cases.
Only clear communications will let you know WHEN you need to know it.

Joe M.


Re: P25 for Cheap

Don
 

I lived most of my life in kali and never heard CHP crypto. They have changed some freq's but always in the clear, 10-4?


A terrific day in Nebraska!

Don


More Live Radio Fun and a Whole Lot More!

Don KPC6NDB
Gothenburg, NE
N40.9 W100.1 2600ft DN90ww
BC1206CM Bearcat DX1000 FRG-100B
FunCube Dongle Pro+ ICF2010 Perseusx3
WR-G303e WR-G31DDCx7 SDRplay RSP2pro
R70 R71A w/250Hz R75x2 w/250Hz R7000
PRN1000x2 SDR-IQ SPR-4 SSR-1 w/NDB mod
SR-AF & LPF DSP599zx MFJ-784B HD-1418 AF-1 MSB-1
PA0RDT-MWx4 1@18ft 1@24ft DXE-ARAV3-1Px4
RYOAA McKay Dymek DA-100 AAx3
Z1501F Russian MW
109 Vintage ADF/RDF
2418 Lifetime logs +65k logs submitted

On 09-Nov-19 18:51, Mark Lassman via Groups.Io wrote:
CHP does NOT use encryption. I listen to them all the time.

Where did you get that from?

On Nov 9, 2019, at 9:15 AM, Teton Amateur Radio Repeater Association (TARRA) <tarra@...> wrote:
The California Highway Patrol uses encryption but publishes an as-it-happens log on the web. Go figure.


Re: crypto comm

Shawn Benoit
 


That sounds like a huge training issue. Not a problem with encryption. 

Most people who demand things to be in the clear seem to have some issues with authority. They are also the same people who say things like "I pay your salary" or "the taxpayers MUST be able to hear the police." They also spout off bout conspiracy theories about their local police. 

The officers need encryption for secure communications. There are all sorts of reasons why for example the following things are common over the air:

-victim info (sexual/Juvenile/domestic violence)
-NCIC (CJIS protected)
-Key holder info 
-Suspect names (NOT proven convicted people)
-Officer locations/calls
-Officer to officer discussions (trying to figure out options/enforcement)
-Medical info/conditions

This goes on. These guys are being attacked on a regular basis. The least we can do is give them secure comms which is dirt cheap and included in just about every radio off the shelf nowadays.

Also, question why you hold grudges with your local police and think they owe you something. 


On Sat, Nov 9, 2019 at 21:51 jim myers <kd7eir@...> wrote:
We have about 9 LE agencies in my county. ONE of them insists on being encrypted 24/7. A few years ago they had an officer chasing a suspect across several municipalities. None of the other agencies could communicate with them in real time, and by the time their dispatch called the agency that he was currently chasing his suspect through with his location, several minutes had passed, and he was nowhere neat that location. Sadly, he was found shot in the head at the end of a road part way up a mountain.

At the time this happened, they were also on a standalone communications system that isolated them from ALL other LE agencies in the county. They finally decided to join the shared radio system, but STILL insist upon 24/7 encryption for their talkgroups. They are still the ONLY encrypted agency. They can switch to a shared, unencrypted, mutual channel if they need assistance. The last time they needed help, no one in their department know what channel to switch to...


Re: crypto comm

William Barrett, KW1B
 


"Secret Squirrels"
 
 
   73
KW1B

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Uniden.groups.io [mailto:main@Uniden.groups.io]On Behalf Of jim myers
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2019 21:48
To: main@uniden.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Uniden] crypto comm

We have about 9 LE agencies in my county. ONE of them insists on being encrypted 24/7. A few years ago they had an officer chasing a suspect across several municipalities. None of the other agencies could communicate with them in real time, and by the time their dispatch called the agency that he was currently chasing his suspect through with his location, several minutes had passed, and he was nowhere neat that location. Sadly, he was found shot in the head at the end of a road part way up a mountain.

At the time this happened, they were also on a standalone communications system that isolated them from ALL other LE agencies in the county. They finally decided to join the shared radio system, but STILL insist upon 24/7 encryption for their talkgroups. They are still the ONLY encrypted agency. They can switch to a shared, unencrypted, mutual channel if they need assistance. The last time they needed help, no one in their department know what channel to switch to...


Re: P25 for Cheap

Rich
 

ain't gonna happen.  illegal for one thing.  

Rich via iPad

On Nov 9, 2019, at 19:11, huntwildturkey8254 via Groups.Io <huntwildturkey8254@...> wrote:

Won’t be long, and scanner companies will be making encrypted radio scanners.
BJN


On Nov 9, 2019, at 19:02, KA9QJG <KA9QJG@...> wrote:



Robert  . That was  very well said  I have  been the Communications over 50 yrs   US Navy , Law Enforcement , 911 Dispatcher  and Ham Radio,   I live in N/W Indiana  near Chicago and had to buy tie expensive Uniden SDS-100  Just to hear My local PD/FD  and some is Encrypted ,And I have worked  in Law Enforcement  Yes in some cases it is needed,   But not for general  Communications .. We actually have a few FB groups that are  listen and posting Live incidents with Audio and Video and Pictures  , This is very dangerous and illegal . Also if you  have enough money and want a Motorola APX  radio that the PD use  just  go to E bay and other places  some will even program the radios for add  More money and Yes you can get the Encryption too . Just do not get caught Even if the  Scanners  companies  would make  decoders it is still illegal for us to Monitor  unless We are Authorized   by the System administrator   of any system

 

Happy Scanning while We can

 

Don KA9QJG

 

Ps  in Working Law Enforcement and a 911  Communications Dispatcher Many yrs ago  I know of many cases where a Scanner listener have called and helped out many times , one time when We has a Sgt call for help His battery was  almost dead and the Dispatcher  did not hear him,  But a scanner listener a block away did and called the dispatcher and  was able to get him the help he needed  saving his life and  catching the alleged  bad guys ,of course this was the good ol analog days With the New Digital you either  hear it or you don’t  when the battery gets weak…

 

From: main@Uniden.groups.io [mailto:main@Uniden.groups.io] On Behalf Of Robert A Klamp
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2019 4:42 PM
To: main@Uniden.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Uniden] P25 for Cheap

 

As intriguing as everyone's opinion on encryption is here that fact of the matter. Ever since people started running streaming media of real time police traffic enc use has skyrocketed. Broadcastify and Radio Reference are your two biggest problem in the scanner world. I remember having to go buy a book of all the local frequencies, having to know how to program them into your scanner or radio, then having the know how to distinguish what was being used for what. You had to do it all your self or instead of buying the book you could throw on the attenuator on your radio and drive around your area doing frequency searches and seeing what hits you got. The big problem with everything being one trunked system is everything is repeated there is no more switch to 5 for simplex ops really happening anymore. Well there is but not in very many places (at least where I live) I remember when the biggest most populated county in my listening area was VHF and all the tactical channels were vhf simplex. They have since encrypted everything with AES256 on a county wide trunked systems with a few different sites and multiple towers for each site. The days of just throwing on your scanner and hearing what's going on are pretty dead. Between CAD systems, encryption, cell phones, cellular PTT like zello or worse yet first net, and many other factors are becoming more and more popular. With the UHF T Band give/take back police have less room in a frequency spectrum that was already overcrowded but worked well for big cities it penetrated buildings and other nuisances well and didn't really propagate to much so there was much bleed over from other places half the country away like low band and sometimes vhf have problems with. Then you have broadcastify just spilling public safety radio traffic out for anybody who want it's like oil from a tanker crash. Add that with almost every frequency in use around the country being reported and published on radio reference for any old schmuck to go look up and you start to see the problem. To much info is readily available to the public. When my small area radio monitoring group decided to stop keeping our own records of data in our area and publish it all on radio reference because the owner of that site hasn't made enough money yet exploiting are once exuberant and lively hobby I saw the end sneaking up fast. But it's not my radio clubs fault i blame radio reference and broadcastify were a criminal can tune in clock patrol traffic and anything else they may need to time and commit crimes with little to no resistance from public safety already knowing what to expect. Or have a lookout listening to there it on there smart phone when he used to have to have some kind of skill with radios to listen to what he can now here with a click of a mouse or worse yet an app on his smart phone. And now we have even dumbed down the hobby further by putting the entire radio reference database in the scanner for so all you have to do is download the latest update and put in your zip code and pop everything from police to public safety are preloaded with the latest information from the biggest threat to our hobby. But wait in case you are so radio incompetent that you don't even know how to lock out unwanted channels don't worry you can just select the correct service tags to hear what you want if your a criminal just lock out all but police services if your a fire bug just lock out all but fire. These problems are not going away they are just getting worse as we enable more and more people who didn't have access to these comms easy access everything they could want and use to the disadvantage of the public and public safety. So of course police will encrypt. Fire will encrypt. And even ems will encrypt there is to much much information available that once upon a time was not. The part of this that makes me just sick is there is one man behind it who hands out little freebies to those that help him destroy our hobby while he take the big payday from uniden,Whistler, and users of both his websites. Stop enabling him! And the last thing I will bring up is the communications act of or the communications privacy act of 1986 I believe should cover live streaming  but for some reason that is loop hole. Make streaming illegal and keep what you hear to yourself this used to be common sense but now we have threads on radiorefernce with titles funniest thing heard one scanner, best call heard on a scanner, active emergency ops on your scanner and so on and so forth. When you ask yourself why is my area going encrypted and why is my 700 dollar scanner now a paper weight just do a search of what info is readily available for your area and what people have posted about what they are hearing in your area things should become a little more clear at that point. I have a lot more to say but I will stop there for more information on the legalities of disclosing what I'd heard on your scanner please see the following link.

 

 

 

 

 

And I know I have upset some people but these are just my thoughts and opinions your allowed to have yours please allow me to have mine,

 

Thank you,

Bob

 

 

 

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Shawn Benoit <shawnbenoit@...>

Date: 11/9/19 14:45 (GMT-06:00)

Subject: Re: [Uniden] P25 for Cheap

 

I'm pro encryption for police and EMS communications. Nothing will change that even though it's a hobby and I like to listen. 

 

On Sat, Nov 9, 2019 at 13:09 Joe M. <mch@...> wrote:

Is that because crime only happens at the
police station and doesn't affect communities?

Do you not care that you will be late to work because
there is an accident blocking your normal route?

Do you not care that you will be ADDING
to the problem (traffic) in the above case?

Are you fine with going to the mall when
there is an active shooter in the area?

If there is a felon loose in your neighborhood,
are you OK letting your kids go out to play?

A FOIA request will not solve any of these cases.
Encryption will not alert you to these cases.
Only clear communications will let you know WHEN you need to know it.

Joe M.

On 11/9/2019 12:54 PM, Shawn Benoit wrote:
> Sure, you can get access to police radio recordings by a FOI request (to
> be nosy). No one except the police need real-time access to encrypted
> communications. Problem solved.




Re: P25 for Cheap

don robinson
 

It's all been added struggle since digital was forced on cities of the US. First, there was some grant to get started. Then they had to replace  or modify their equipment to motorola monopoly radios and transmitters and they didn't work without modification- there went millions more $$$, but on top of that, more millions $$$$ must be spent annually to maintain and update that same equipment. This was supposed to be for interoperability, but at the heart of it, it was just the phone companies taking over radio spectrum- TV and radio communications was "evicted" to other bands. How much does encryption cost  to add to radio systems. I don't know, but I don't think it's free. Anyway, my city struggles just to afford a police department, and that just barely. We could use a few hundred more officers, but that ain't in  the cards. At any rate, our officers are trained well enough how to use their equipment that they use discretion in their language-they aren't a bunch of ignorant goons, and they know they are under scrutiny, so they regulate their behavior as well. So far there has been little attempt in my neck the woods  to need encryption. As long as that holds up, my little 396xt will continue to inform be how to avoid being in the way or what I might do that is helpful to law enforcement and my neighbors.

On Saturday, November 9, 2019, 06:48:43 PM PST, Don Curtis <don.curtis@...> wrote:


No they won't, it's illegal to decrypt an encrypted signal.  Besides which, you need the encryption key which is either 128 bytes long or 256 bytes long. 

Decoding a digitally encoded key is legal as long as the patent owner of the encoding system has licensed the maker of the scanner to use the decoding algorithm. 






On November 9, 2019 7:25:30 PM "huntwildturkey8254 via Groups.Io" <huntwildturkey8254@...> wrote:

Won’t be long, and scanner companies will be making encrypted radio scanners.
BJN


On Nov 9, 2019, at 19:02, KA9QJG <KA9QJG@...> wrote:



Robert  . That was  very well said  I have  been the Communications over 50 yrs   US Navy , Law Enforcement , 911 Dispatcher  and Ham Radio,   I live in N/W Indiana  near Chicago and had to buy tie expensive Uniden SDS-100  Just to hear My local PD/FD  and some is Encrypted ,And I have worked  in Law Enforcement  Yes in some cases it is needed,   But not for general  Communications .. We actually have a few FB groups that are  listen and posting Live incidents with Audio and Video and Pictures  , This is very dangerous and illegal . Also if you  have enough money and want a Motorola APX  radio that the PD use  just  go to E bay and other places  some will even program the radios for add  More money and Yes you can get the Encryption too . Just do not get caught Even if the  Scanners  companies  would make  decoders it is still illegal for us to Monitor  unless We are Authorized   by the System administrator   of any system

 

Happy Scanning while We can

 

Don KA9QJG

 

Ps  in Working Law Enforcement and a 911  Communications Dispatcher Many yrs ago  I know of many cases where a Scanner listener have called and helped out many times , one time when We has a Sgt call for help His battery was  almost dead and the Dispatcher  did not hear him,  But a scanner listener a block away did and called the dispatcher and  was able to get him the help he needed  saving his life and  catching the alleged  bad guys ,of course this was the good ol analog days With the New Digital you either  hear it or you don’t  when the battery gets weak…

 

From: main@Uniden.groups.io [mailto:main@Uniden.groups.io] On Behalf Of Robert A Klamp
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2019 4:42 PM
To: main@Uniden.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Uniden] P25 for Cheap

 

As intriguing as everyone's opinion on encryption is here that fact of the matter. Ever since people started running streaming media of real time police traffic enc use has skyrocketed. Broadcastify and Radio Reference are your two biggest problem in the scanner world. I remember having to go buy a book of all the local frequencies, having to know how to program them into your scanner or radio, then having the know how to distinguish what was being used for what. You had to do it all your self or instead of buying the book you could throw on the attenuator on your radio and drive around your area doing frequency searches and seeing what hits you got. The big problem with everything being one trunked system is everything is repeated there is no more switch to 5 for simplex ops really happening anymore. Well there is but not in very many places (at least where I live) I remember when the biggest most populated county in my listening area was VHF and all the tactical channels were vhf simplex. They have since encrypted everything with AES256 on a county wide trunked systems with a few different sites and multiple towers for each site. The days of just throwing on your scanner and hearing what's going on are pretty dead. Between CAD systems, encryption, cell phones, cellular PTT like zello or worse yet first net, and many other factors are becoming more and more popular. With the UHF T Band give/take back police have less room in a frequency spectrum that was already overcrowded but worked well for big cities it penetrated buildings and other nuisances well and didn't really propagate to much so there was much bleed over from other places half the country away like low band and sometimes vhf have problems with. Then you have broadcastify just spilling public safety radio traffic out for anybody who want it's like oil from a tanker crash. Add that with almost every frequency in use around the country being reported and published on radio reference for any old schmuck to go look up and you start to see the problem. To much info is readily available to the public. When my small area radio monitoring group decided to stop keeping our own records of data in our area and publish it all on radio reference because the owner of that site hasn't made enough money yet exploiting are once exuberant and lively hobby I saw the end sneaking up fast. But it's not my radio clubs fault i blame radio reference and broadcastify were a criminal can tune in clock patrol traffic and anything else they may need to time and commit crimes with little to no resistance from public safety already knowing what to expect. Or have a lookout listening to there it on there smart phone when he used to have to have some kind of skill with radios to listen to what he can now here with a click of a mouse or worse yet an app on his smart phone. And now we have even dumbed down the hobby further by putting the entire radio reference database in the scanner for so all you have to do is download the latest update and put in your zip code and pop everything from police to public safety are preloaded with the latest information from the biggest threat to our hobby. But wait in case you are so radio incompetent that you don't even know how to lock out unwanted channels don't worry you can just select the correct service tags to hear what you want if your a criminal just lock out all but police services if your a fire bug just lock out all but fire. These problems are not going away they are just getting worse as we enable more and more people who didn't have access to these comms easy access everything they could want and use to the disadvantage of the public and public safety. So of course police will encrypt. Fire will encrypt. And even ems will encrypt there is to much much information available that once upon a time was not. The part of this that makes me just sick is there is one man behind it who hands out little freebies to those that help him destroy our hobby while he take the big payday from uniden,Whistler, and users of both his websites. Stop enabling him! And the last thing I will bring up is the communications act of or the communications privacy act of 1986 I believe should cover live streaming  but for some reason that is loop hole. Make streaming illegal and keep what you hear to yourself this used to be common sense but now we have threads on radiorefernce with titles funniest thing heard one scanner, best call heard on a scanner, active emergency ops on your scanner and so on and so forth. When you ask yourself why is my area going encrypted and why is my 700 dollar scanner now a paper weight just do a search of what info is readily available for your area and what people have posted about what they are hearing in your area things should become a little more clear at that point. I have a lot more to say but I will stop there for more information on the legalities of disclosing what I'd heard on your scanner please see the following link.

 

 

 

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2511

 

 

And I know I have upset some people but these are just my thoughts and opinions your allowed to have yours please allow me to have mine,

 

Thank you,

Bob

 

 

 

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Shawn Benoit <shawnbenoit@...>

Date: 11/9/19 14:45 (GMT-06:00)

To: main@uniden.groups.io

Subject: Re: [Uniden] P25 for Cheap

 

I'm pro encryption for police and EMS communications. Nothing will change that even though it's a hobby and I like to listen. 

 

On Sat, Nov 9, 2019 at 13:09 Joe M. <mch@...> wrote:

Is that because crime only happens at the
police station and doesn't affect communities?

Do you not care that you will be late to work because
there is an accident blocking your normal route?

Do you not care that you will be ADDING
to the problem (traffic) in the above case?

Are you fine with going to the mall when
there is an active shooter in the area?

If there is a felon loose in your neighborhood,
are you OK letting your kids go out to play?

A FOIA request will not solve any of these cases.
Encryption will not alert you to these cases.
Only clear communications will let you know WHEN you need to know it.

Joe M.

On 11/9/2019 12:54 PM, Shawn Benoit wrote:
> Sure, you can get access to police radio recordings by a FOI request (to
> be nosy). No one except the police need real-time access to encrypted
> communications. Problem solved.





Re: crypto comm

jim myers
 

We have about 9 LE agencies in my county. ONE of them insists on being encrypted 24/7. A few years ago they had an officer chasing a suspect across several municipalities. None of the other agencies could communicate with them in real time, and by the time their dispatch called the agency that he was currently chasing his suspect through with his location, several minutes had passed, and he was nowhere neat that location. Sadly, he was found shot in the head at the end of a road part way up a mountain.

At the time this happened, they were also on a standalone communications system that isolated them from ALL other LE agencies in the county. They finally decided to join the shared radio system, but STILL insist upon 24/7 encryption for their talkgroups. They are still the ONLY encrypted agency. They can switch to a shared, unencrypted, mutual channel if they need assistance. The last time they needed help, no one in their department know what channel to switch to...


Re: P25 for Cheap

Don Curtis <Don.Curtis@...>
 

No they won't, it's illegal to decrypt an encrypted signal.  Besides which, you need the encryption key which is either 128 bytes long or 256 bytes long. 

Decoding a digitally encoded key is legal as long as the patent owner of the encoding system has licensed the maker of the scanner to use the decoding algorithm. 






On November 9, 2019 7:25:30 PM "huntwildturkey8254 via Groups.Io" <huntwildturkey8254@...> wrote:

Won’t be long, and scanner companies will be making encrypted radio scanners.
BJN


On Nov 9, 2019, at 19:02, KA9QJG <KA9QJG@...> wrote:



Robert  . That was  very well said  I have  been the Communications over 50 yrs   US Navy , Law Enforcement , 911 Dispatcher  and Ham Radio,   I live in N/W Indiana  near Chicago and had to buy tie expensive Uniden SDS-100  Just to hear My local PD/FD  and some is Encrypted ,And I have worked  in Law Enforcement  Yes in some cases it is needed,   But not for general  Communications .. We actually have a few FB groups that are  listen and posting Live incidents with Audio and Video and Pictures  , This is very dangerous and illegal . Also if you  have enough money and want a Motorola APX  radio that the PD use  just  go to E bay and other places  some will even program the radios for add  More money and Yes you can get the Encryption too . Just do not get caught Even if the  Scanners  companies  would make  decoders it is still illegal for us to Monitor  unless We are Authorized   by the System administrator   of any system

 

Happy Scanning while We can

 

Don KA9QJG

 

Ps  in Working Law Enforcement and a 911  Communications Dispatcher Many yrs ago  I know of many cases where a Scanner listener have called and helped out many times , one time when We has a Sgt call for help His battery was  almost dead and the Dispatcher  did not hear him,  But a scanner listener a block away did and called the dispatcher and  was able to get him the help he needed  saving his life and  catching the alleged  bad guys ,of course this was the good ol analog days With the New Digital you either  hear it or you don’t  when the battery gets weak…

 

From: main@Uniden.groups.io [mailto:main@Uniden.groups.io] On Behalf Of Robert A Klamp
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2019 4:42 PM
To: main@Uniden.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Uniden] P25 for Cheap

 

As intriguing as everyone's opinion on encryption is here that fact of the matter. Ever since people started running streaming media of real time police traffic enc use has skyrocketed. Broadcastify and Radio Reference are your two biggest problem in the scanner world. I remember having to go buy a book of all the local frequencies, having to know how to program them into your scanner or radio, then having the know how to distinguish what was being used for what. You had to do it all your self or instead of buying the book you could throw on the attenuator on your radio and drive around your area doing frequency searches and seeing what hits you got. The big problem with everything being one trunked system is everything is repeated there is no more switch to 5 for simplex ops really happening anymore. Well there is but not in very many places (at least where I live) I remember when the biggest most populated county in my listening area was VHF and all the tactical channels were vhf simplex. They have since encrypted everything with AES256 on a county wide trunked systems with a few different sites and multiple towers for each site. The days of just throwing on your scanner and hearing what's going on are pretty dead. Between CAD systems, encryption, cell phones, cellular PTT like zello or worse yet first net, and many other factors are becoming more and more popular. With the UHF T Band give/take back police have less room in a frequency spectrum that was already overcrowded but worked well for big cities it penetrated buildings and other nuisances well and didn't really propagate to much so there was much bleed over from other places half the country away like low band and sometimes vhf have problems with. Then you have broadcastify just spilling public safety radio traffic out for anybody who want it's like oil from a tanker crash. Add that with almost every frequency in use around the country being reported and published on radio reference for any old schmuck to go look up and you start to see the problem. To much info is readily available to the public. When my small area radio monitoring group decided to stop keeping our own records of data in our area and publish it all on radio reference because the owner of that site hasn't made enough money yet exploiting are once exuberant and lively hobby I saw the end sneaking up fast. But it's not my radio clubs fault i blame radio reference and broadcastify were a criminal can tune in clock patrol traffic and anything else they may need to time and commit crimes with little to no resistance from public safety already knowing what to expect. Or have a lookout listening to there it on there smart phone when he used to have to have some kind of skill with radios to listen to what he can now here with a click of a mouse or worse yet an app on his smart phone. And now we have even dumbed down the hobby further by putting the entire radio reference database in the scanner for so all you have to do is download the latest update and put in your zip code and pop everything from police to public safety are preloaded with the latest information from the biggest threat to our hobby. But wait in case you are so radio incompetent that you don't even know how to lock out unwanted channels don't worry you can just select the correct service tags to hear what you want if your a criminal just lock out all but police services if your a fire bug just lock out all but fire. These problems are not going away they are just getting worse as we enable more and more people who didn't have access to these comms easy access everything they could want and use to the disadvantage of the public and public safety. So of course police will encrypt. Fire will encrypt. And even ems will encrypt there is to much much information available that once upon a time was not. The part of this that makes me just sick is there is one man behind it who hands out little freebies to those that help him destroy our hobby while he take the big payday from uniden,Whistler, and users of both his websites. Stop enabling him! And the last thing I will bring up is the communications act of or the communications privacy act of 1986 I believe should cover live streaming  but for some reason that is loop hole. Make streaming illegal and keep what you hear to yourself this used to be common sense but now we have threads on radiorefernce with titles funniest thing heard one scanner, best call heard on a scanner, active emergency ops on your scanner and so on and so forth. When you ask yourself why is my area going encrypted and why is my 700 dollar scanner now a paper weight just do a search of what info is readily available for your area and what people have posted about what they are hearing in your area things should become a little more clear at that point. I have a lot more to say but I will stop there for more information on the legalities of disclosing what I'd heard on your scanner please see the following link.

 

 

 

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2511

 

 

And I know I have upset some people but these are just my thoughts and opinions your allowed to have yours please allow me to have mine,

 

Thank you,

Bob

 

 

 

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Shawn Benoit <shawnbenoit@...>

Date: 11/9/19 14:45 (GMT-06:00)

To: main@uniden.groups.io

Subject: Re: [Uniden] P25 for Cheap

 

I'm pro encryption for police and EMS communications. Nothing will change that even though it's a hobby and I like to listen. 

 

On Sat, Nov 9, 2019 at 13:09 Joe M. <mch@...> wrote:

Is that because crime only happens at the
police station and doesn't affect communities?

Do you not care that you will be late to work because
there is an accident blocking your normal route?

Do you not care that you will be ADDING
to the problem (traffic) in the above case?

Are you fine with going to the mall when
there is an active shooter in the area?

If there is a felon loose in your neighborhood,
are you OK letting your kids go out to play?

A FOIA request will not solve any of these cases.
Encryption will not alert you to these cases.
Only clear communications will let you know WHEN you need to know it.

Joe M.

On 11/9/2019 12:54 PM, Shawn Benoit wrote:
> Sure, you can get access to police radio recordings by a FOI request (to
> be nosy). No one except the police need real-time access to encrypted
> communications. Problem solved.





Re: P25 for Cheap

Joe M.
 

I agree if by "Won’t be long" you mean "NEVER".

There are a few issues preventing this.

1. The manufacturers will never make decryption available. It would never pass FCC Type Acceptance for a consumer product since it would violate FCC rules.

2. The manufacturers will never try to pull one over on the FCC because they would be making products intended to violate FCC law. Any manufacturer who tries this will soon be out of business due to FCC fines which would escalate with each violation. Nobody has pockets that deep - especially to pacify a bunch of scanner users.

3. Let's say the above is wrong and they can add decryption. You really think the system owner is going to give YOU the key? Without that, you can try 1 key per second and still never find the right one in your lifetime. If it were that simple there would be PC software that would decrypt.

Again, never gonna happen. Not in a commercial consumer product.

Joe M.

On 11/9/2019 8:11 PM, huntwildturkey8254 via Groups.Io wrote:
Won’t be long, and scanner companies will be making encrypted radio
scanners.
BJN


On Nov 9, 2019, at 19:02, KA9QJG <KA9QJG@...> wrote:



Robert . That was very well said I have been the Communications
over 50 yrs US Navy , Law Enforcement , 911 Dispatcher and Ham
Radio, I live in N/W Indiana near Chicago and had to buy tie
expensive Uniden SDS-100 Just to hear My local PD/FD and some is
Encrypted ,And I have worked in Law Enforcement Yes in some cases it
is needed, But not for general Communications .. We actually have a
few FB groups that are listen and posting Live incidents with Audio
and Video and Pictures , This is very dangerous and illegal . Also if
you have enough money and want a Motorola APX radio that the PD use
just go to E bay and other places some will even program the radios
for add More money and Yes you can get the Encryption too . Just do
not get caught Even if the Scanners companies would make decoders
it is still illegal for us to Monitor unless We are Authorized by
the System administrator of any system

Happy Scanning while We can

Don KA9QJG

Ps in Working Law Enforcement and a 911 Communications Dispatcher
Many yrs ago I know of many cases where a Scanner listener have
called and helped out many times , one time when We has a Sgt call for
help His battery was almost dead and the Dispatcher did not hear
him, But a scanner listener a block away did and called the
dispatcher and was able to get him the help he needed saving his
life and catching the alleged bad guys ,of course this was the good
ol analog days With the New Digital you either hear it or you don’t
when the battery gets weak…

*From:*main@Uniden.groups.io [mailto:main@Uniden.groups.io] *On Behalf
Of *Robert A Klamp
*Sent:* Saturday, November 09, 2019 4:42 PM
*To:* main@Uniden.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [Uniden] P25 for Cheap

As intriguing as everyone's opinion on encryption is here that fact of
the matter. Ever since people started running streaming media of real
time police traffic enc use has skyrocketed. Broadcastify and Radio
Reference are your two biggest problem in the scanner world. I
remember having to go buy a book of all the local frequencies, having
to know how to program them into your scanner or radio, then having
the know how to distinguish what was being used for what. You had to
do it all your self or instead of buying the book you could throw on
the attenuator on your radio and drive around your area doing
frequency searches and seeing what hits you got. The big problem with
everything being one trunked system is everything is repeated there is
no more switch to 5 for simplex ops really happening anymore. Well
there is but not in very many places (at least where I live) I
remember when the biggest most populated county in my listening area
was VHF and all the tactical channels were vhf simplex. They have
since encrypted everything with AES256 on a county wide trunked
systems with a few different sites and multiple towers for each site.
The days of just throwing on your scanner and hearing what's going on
are pretty dead. Between CAD systems, encryption, cell phones,
cellular PTT like zello or worse yet first net, and many other factors
are becoming more and more popular. With the UHF T Band give/take back
police have less room in a frequency spectrum that was already
overcrowded but worked well for big cities it penetrated buildings and
other nuisances well and didn't really propagate to much so there was
much bleed over from other places half the country away like low band
and sometimes vhf have problems with. Then you have broadcastify just
spilling public safety radio traffic out for anybody who want it's
like oil from a tanker crash. Add that with almost every frequency in
use around the country being reported and published on radio reference
for any old schmuck to go look up and you start to see the problem. To
much info is readily available to the public. When my small area radio
monitoring group decided to stop keeping our own records of data in
our area and publish it all on radio reference because the owner of
that site hasn't made enough money yet exploiting are once exuberant
and lively hobby I saw the end sneaking up fast. But it's not my radio
clubs fault i blame radio reference and broadcastify were a criminal
can tune in clock patrol traffic and anything else they may need to
time and commit crimes with little to no resistance from public safety
already knowing what to expect. Or have a lookout listening to there
it on there smart phone when he used to have to have some kind of
skill with radios to listen to what he can now here with a click of a
mouse or worse yet an app on his smart phone. And now we have even
dumbed down the hobby further by putting the entire radio reference
database in the scanner for so all you have to do is download the
latest update and put in your zip code and pop everything from police
to public safety are preloaded with the latest information from the
biggest threat to our hobby. But wait in case you are so radio
incompetent that you don't even know how to lock out unwanted channels
don't worry you can just select the correct service tags to hear what
you want if your a criminal just lock out all but police services if
your a fire bug just lock out all but fire. These problems are not
going away they are just getting worse as we enable more and more
people who didn't have access to these comms easy access everything
they could want and use to the disadvantage of the public and public
safety. So of course police will encrypt. Fire will encrypt. And even
ems will encrypt there is to much much information available that once
upon a time was not. The part of this that makes me just sick is there
is one man behind it who hands out little freebies to those that help
him destroy our hobby while he take the big payday from
uniden,Whistler, and users of both his websites. Stop enabling him!
And the last thing I will bring up is the communications act of or the
communications privacy act of 1986 I believe should cover live
streaming but for some reason that is loop hole. Make streaming
illegal and keep what you hear to yourself this used to be common
sense but now we have threads on radiorefernce with titles funniest
thing heard one scanner, best call heard on a scanner, active
emergency ops on your scanner and so on and so forth. When you ask
yourself why is my area going encrypted and why is my 700 dollar
scanner now a paper weight just do a search of what info is readily
available for your area and what people have posted about what they
are hearing in your area things should become a little more clear at
that point. I have a lot more to say but I will stop there for more
information on the legalities of disclosing what I'd heard on your
scanner please see the following link.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2511

And I know I have upset some people but these are just my thoughts and
opinions your allowed to have yours please allow me to have mine,

Thank you,

Bob

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------

From: Shawn Benoit <shawnbenoit@...>

Date: 11/9/19 14:45 (GMT-06:00)

To: main@uniden.groups.io

Subject: Re: [Uniden] P25 for Cheap

I'm pro encryption for police and EMS communications. Nothing will
change that even though it's a hobby and I like to listen.

On Sat, Nov 9, 2019 at 13:09 Joe M. <mch@... <mailto:mch@...>>
wrote:

Is that because crime only happens at the
police station and doesn't affect communities?

Do you not care that you will be late to work because
there is an accident blocking your normal route?

Do you not care that you will be ADDING
to the problem (traffic) in the above case?

Are you fine with going to the mall when
there is an active shooter in the area?

If there is a felon loose in your neighborhood,
are you OK letting your kids go out to play?

A FOIA request will not solve any of these cases.
Encryption will not alert you to these cases.
Only clear communications will let you know WHEN you need to know it.

Joe M.

On 11/9/2019 12:54 PM, Shawn Benoit wrote:
> Sure, you can get access to police radio recordings by a FOI
request (to
> be nosy). No one except the police need real-time access to
encrypted
> communications. Problem solved.


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Re: P25 for Cheap

Mark Lassman
 

CHP does NOT use encryption. I listen to them all the time.

Where did you get that from?

On Nov 9, 2019, at 9:15 AM, Teton Amateur Radio Repeater Association (TARRA) <tarra@...> wrote:
The California Highway Patrol uses encryption but publishes an as-it-happens log on the web. Go figure.


Re: P25 for Cheap

Paul Valeriani <rebelsun2000@...>
 

You pretty much covered it Mr. Klamp, with the exception of, a lot of the trunking systems and encryption is being promoted to Police and Fire Departments as necessary, when the real reason is, it's a big money maker for the radio manufacturers and the sales people as well.  When I dealt with Motorola, while we were upgrading our radio system, as well as our Fire Department's radio system on UHF, they put the full court press on to upgrade us to an 800 mhz trunked system.  They convinced the Fire Chief, but I was not sold on the idea, since our UHF system worked well for us, we already owned the frequencies, and we just needed new hardware in the form of radios, repeaters, and antennas.  It was also interoperable with all the greater Boston BAPERN system, and for the Fire end, with the Metro Fire system in Greater Boston.  If we had gone to 800 mhz, everything would have to be patched through the consoles in the radio room, to/from BAPERN and Metro Fire.  I finally convinced the Fire Chief to stay on UHF, upgrade the system, and still have full interoperability.  The Motorola rep wasn't happy about this decision.  He did manage to talk me into adding their encryption key onto our system which could be used for privacy on sensitive topics, and for officer safety, when needed.  It was proprietary to Motorola in the early 90s (which is when this took place), I had a grant for it, so we included it to be used on an as needed basis.  We remained in the clear, until we needed to use it, then we would call for a code white, and activate it on the system, so other listeners couldn't hear what were saying on the air.  It worked very well for it's intended purpose.  We also got our first MDTs at this time, they were the Motorola monochrome units.  They were a far cry from what's in use today!

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