Re: Encryption


HIPAA does not apply to communications required to treat patients or to information shared for operations purposes. 45 C.F.R. § 164.501 Since information shared by a dispatch agency is shared to treat patients and to operate effectively as a dispatchservice, HIPAA most often does not apply to the communication.


Rich, n9dko

On May 14, 2020, at 19:27, Don Curtis <Don.Curtis@...> wrote:


Then you know that no option is perfect.  You know there are stories like yours where hearing a clear channel dispatch helped you assist.

But I bet you also know about ambush setups by listening to dispatch and one of the cops arrives and is shot.  You've heard of gawker blocks on a tactical situation.  Etc.

I have certainly lived through both types of situations.

John and Jane Doe are having a family fight, John beats the **** outta Jane.  Cops get there and send Jane via ambulance to hospital... Paramedic calls in.. Bringing in xyz diabetic female, BP x/y, 45yrs old, knife wounds in the chest and neck...

Anyone listening now knows who they are talking about and her private medical records... In violation of HIPPA

Anyway.. I have had my say... I'll shut up now.


On May 14, 2020 6:03:57 PM "Rick Bates, NK7I" <Rick.NK7I@...> wrote:

I too have been in the business of public safety for a career.

Hearing welfare checks can be useful, there is no loss of privacy (but
it might also be your neighbor you assumed was away), just as there
isn't when a burglary is reported.  HIPPA and other laws protect the
privacy of folks during a medical aid call too, no worry there unless
the responders are violating the law.  ALL of this is useful because it
give one a sense of the neighborhood (might be yours, might be across
town) and makes one more aware (a trend growing in your neighborhood?),
potentially more alert thereby safer.

I see the need for encryption in certain cases but if it's REALLY
needing security, use a cell phone or land line (they still exist).  But
for the rest (non-SWAT, undercover), there isn't a need and it does
cause one to wonder what is being hidden.  A common law abiding citizen
shouldn't have to jump through hoops to know they are/were at risk in or
near their own home when real time information (raw data) is available.

I live 30 miles away from two state lines (and a country border), each
state having P25 networks, one is encrypted.  A recent vehicle chase
from WA crossed into ID (encrypted, lack of common communications except
via dispatchers) then into MT...  that encryption, even with common
systems (except frequency bands) caused some serious lag time in
sit-reps.  There is no intertie, no back door and it would cost the
public a bleeding fortune to have each patrol car with 460, 700 and 800
MHz trunked radios (and no common high band channels either between
patrol units).  Yes, those are two issues but they couldn't even use
their scanners once across the state line to get rapid updates (the
vehicle crashed, just into MT, the road is gnarly at speed).

Further, now that I'm retired, clear channel is useful when traveling so
I can hear of the semi that flipped 40 miles ahead or forest fire road
closure; which allows me to re-route or stop for a meal or the night
while it clears.  That make me part of the traffic solution, not one of
the vehicles waiting backed up for hours.

In one instance, a medical aid call came in at a National park I was
visiting.  It had immediate life threats and the closest unit was 25
minutes away and I was a mile away.  Still being certified, I jumped in,
assisted successfully and slipped out when the responders arrived to
take over.  Now if that has also been encrypted... the coroner was 4-5
hours away and it would have been a LONG night for many.

Rick NK7I
North Idaho

On 5/14/2020 4:35 PM, Don Curtis wrote:

The privacy isn't for the criminal.   The privacy is for calls like
welfare checks, ambulance patients having their name and dob and
health issues broadcast in the clear.  That the burglar alarm at 123
main St is the 4th false alarm this week, etc.

You may believe in anarchy and rebellion... Your choice, don't be
surprised if you lose.   I am absolutely against these Covid lockdown
and I am a high risk candidate.  I believe those lockdown orders are
unconstitutional. There are legal ways to get those orders removed and
never allowed to return.    Protests.. Fine.... Gunshots.. Nope.


On May 14, 2020 4:42:46 PM "Joe M." <mch@...> wrote:

This makes perfect sense.

"Gee - there was a burglar in my neighborhood last week - I
should get in my time machine and go back and lock my doors"

I won't even address the "nominal fee" for
information related to your own safety.

The more encryption spreads, the more armed citizens there will be.
I've seen it happen in areas near me. It's too bad the number of
untrained will rise, but hey - as long as it's more safe, right?

Sorry, but criminals have no privacy
rights that supersede my safety rights.

In fact, one could argue that protecting their
privacy encourages more criminal activity.
(or was that the intent all along?)

We may as well just replace the news with
game shows due to privacy concerns.

Joe M.

On 5/14/2020 6:30 PM, Don Curtis wrote:
There are privacy issues that are addressed via encryption.  I have
listening to police calls since the early 60's.  I was a Denver Police
officer for 26 years, retired in 1997.

I understand the desire to have dispatch channels in the clear, but I
agree with the need for encryption even on the main dispatch channel.
Authentic news media have always been able to buy radios that are
programed by the safety radio engineers that can decrypt the main
dispatch channel.   And pretty much anyone can get (for a nominal fee)
unencrypted audio from past events.

On May 14, 2020 4:05:33 PM "jeff" <jeffm1977@...> wrote:

I still blame the scanner apps on the phones and live feeds. I'm sure
criminals love scanner apps. I'm all for encryption, but the normal
day to day operations should not be encrypted. Only tac channels,
swat, drug enforcement, and other sensitive stuff should be encrypted.

Sent from Xfinity Connect Application

-----Original Message-----

From: harvey@...
Sent: 2020-05-14 5:08:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Uniden] Encryption

As much as the encryption is hurting us as law abiding citizens who
want to hear what is going on, if it weren’t for criminals, encryption
wouldn’t be necessary. They should share blame also.





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